Playing at Harrah's Chester, 1/2.

V1: Cutoff, Middle-aged black women, not important in hand, but still involved. Stack: $52

V2: button, 20s Asian kid, playing tag, been playing pretty tight but usually shows down the goods Stack:$550

Hero: 20s white kid, playing fairly aggressively but not getting out of line too often. Hasn't won too many big pots but usually shows the goods. Stack$ 675


Hero is dealt 33 in MP 2 limper around to hero, who also limps. Button limps, blinds complete.


Flop ($12)

3 8 10

Checked around to Hero who bets $30

V1 ships all-in for $50, V2 calls, I can not raise so I call


Turn: ($162) 2

I bet $150 on turn, V2 tanks for a minute then calls.

River: ($462) 10

Hero checks, V2 Shoves all in (Apporx. $300)




Can hero find a fold here with Threes full? Villain hasn't been seen bluffing too many spots and he cold called $150 on turn, about a psb.

A) Why bet so much?
B) Pay attention to this fact and recognize that your bet prevented you from raising. If you bet $25 - still a huge overbet - you can now repop the flop.

As played, no, I am just never folding here. He could have T8; he could have also have AT and think he has the nuts against your KT.

Harrah's Chester, huh? I'll have to keep an eye out for you.

I'll have to see how often I play there once I start working on Monday, but I'm a skinny white guy, no distinguishing features haha.

But I have been testing out the overbet on flops I smash at 1/2, villains seem to not care about sizing on the flop, if they catch a piece, or are drawing they are calling almost no matter what.

You bet waaay too much. I dont know if a tag V is calling you two streets with just a ten unless you have a history of bombing with mediocre hands.
The only hand i might be concerned with is 8T combos - i dont see him having 88 or tt here because he is likely to have raised otb. 8ts is the type of hand hes more likely to have limped with.

I cry call.

Limping at Harrahs Chester is criminal.

Yuck at this spot. Must call though.

What did you expect V to do once you make a PSB OTT, then check to him OTR? Obvious ship for ATC.

Hero cannot fold this. Only hand AZN can have that beats us is 10-8. A hand he probably shoves turn on. V has Q10. Call.

Most live players would never overbet with set+ because they're afraid to lose action.

It is especially true in 1/2. So in this case, the opposite would have to be true in order for villain to fold: that hero has shown a history of making overbet with very strong hands.

I have just been dabbling with these type of bets in made hands since they seem to be getting paid off that.

Posting results before I pass out, would like some grunching and any tips on how to play the hand better!

Huge bet on the flop in this spot just looks fishy, and most villains in 1/2 will have tough time folding TPGK+.

Why?

The fact that you limped pre in MP after 2 limpers, most people can probably recognize conscious or subconsciously that your hand is not very strong (unless of course you have history of playing tricky), and therefore it is very unlikely that you have JJ+.

"I would never make such big bet with very strong hands, because I am afraid to lose action."

It would also eliminate sets, or even two pairs - after all, who would bet set that hard in a limped pot? It's insane, you want action!

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Turn is another huge bet, and it actually falls in line with the belief that you're bluffing.

"Damn, this kid thinks he can't muscle me out."

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Two things happened on the river:

1. TP is now trips - it improves villain's absolute value significantly.
2. Hero checks - plays into the idea that hero could be bluffing and could also mean that hero cannot beat Tx.

Overall, I think villain would bet with all of his Tx.

River is never a bluff. The only hand he could be bluffing with is only maybe j9. Tag kid never call two streets n bluff like that.

Also yes i agree with you that live players wouldnt put you on a monster because they think there is no way you would bet so much with one. However 1) this is a tag player and 2) llsnl players usually get scared of big pots because they think in term of real money and a big bet like that usually deters a call

Tx is not perceived as a bluff...

What does TAG even mean? Limping with T8 on the button is TAG now?

I don't think MUBS is an issue here when he called two big barrels with 2 pairs.

Are you trying to say that he will never call flop with less than 2 pairs?

And even less likely turn?

I never said tx is a bluff. Im saying Vs range starts with Tx, we cant consider any bluffs to be factored into making a call (more like a general comment rather than a direct response i guess..)

Some players like to raise qt+ otb vs limpers... Something to keep an eye out to help deduce his range here.
As played, to me his hand looks like 88,t8, a10.. Maybe a super stubborn kt.. But unlikely vs this young tag.

You bombing flop and turn so hard just screams set to me or t8... I would have to think the tag would fold qt kt and possibly stick around with a10 if he's stubborn.

I'm ranging him at 88,8t ,AT after calling the turn.
Did he tank on the river at all? Usually when I see a player tank turn, then hit their nut card ,they shove like within 5 seconds.

Whether villain is bluffing on the river is completely moot in this spot, because it has zero effect in our decision to call or fold.

So I didn't understand your point of bringing up that river is never bluff, unless of course you think Tx is a bluff.

I don't think a young tag would be thinking ," he wouldn't lead out so big on the flop with a set on a limped pot" and then proceed to call 2 bombs, flop and turn... I can see a flop call, but then since hero says he hasn't really got out of line, I would find it hard to find a call vs him with kt and below on the turn.

What does MUBS mean?

In theory its not tag, but i daresay many many live winning players limp with that kind of hand in late because they havent read this forum and had limping scs beaten out of them yet. .

All i was doing was trying to make sense of his play based on what happened. So yes, i am saying hes not calling with less than 2p there (maaaybe AT?) Because the bet size was SO big on such a dry board.

When i talk about bluffing, the relevance is that, if we talk about figuring out what % of times we are good here, doesnt it change the weigh of whether we r good or not if we can narrow his hands down to a couple fewer?

I painted a picture and it's simply my perception of the situation. I am certain that it could be wrong.

Monster Under Bed Syndrome.

You're right in that sense, but in this case, we're dealing with a very huge bet on the river in a limped pot that started with an unusually large bet on a dry flop.

It is very unlikely that villain would show up with a bluff in this spot, and there couldn't be more than 1 or 2 combos that are less than Tx in this spot, so it is not relevant.

Yea that's exactly the way I feel most fish villains think also, so I kinda like his line in that situation vs fish.
I'm just thinking a young tight tag would be a bit smarter and re-evaluate the hand facing the turn bet.
Haha, MUBS is a funny acronym

Okay, a couple of thoughts here. Watch your bet OTF. Overbets are fine, but always be aware of stack sizes, you cannot allow shorty to raise AI without reopening the betting. This hand plays out a lot differently if you raise to only 25, pot is 137 when it gets back to you, you raise to 150, TAG calls, and you are AI OTT.

Second, you call this river vs a TAG, of course. Your hand looks exactly like an OESD that bricked the river. I would expect any good TAG to shove on you with his whole range, bluffs, 2x, Tx, 8x. Check your range against just the hands that hit the board, you are well ahead, add the bluffs, and it's an absolute no-brainer.

Okay, now we get to the real work. We need to refine our read on this guy. He's not a TAG. He played this hand extremely loose and passive vs you. Very fishy. Am I saying he is a fish or a bad player? Nope. He could be an extremely good player, as a matter of fact, he might be scary good compared to the level you are at right now. Playing this way against you might indicate he is adjusting very well indeed to you. Of course, the fact that he limped T8 OTB at all, especially when the pot was guaranteed to go multiway is another checkmark in the fishy column.

Ok, so from now on, we drop him from the TAG category. What was it that first made us mark him TAG? Does he raise a lot preflop? C-bet most of the flops when he raises pre? He could just be a fish on a heater. We've got to look at the board textures when he c-bets. Are these good textures to bet, or is he betting even when they are not? Does he bet/fold? Can we find some bet/fold situations (such as when he has capped his range OTT, for example) and see how he reacts? Is he playing differently against different players?

Let's not just chalk this one up to a cooler. Instead, let's get inside this guy's head (if he's a regular) and find out what makes him tick. It would be a good exercise, if nothing else, I think.

Hard to say this though, since given our read (that he is playing TAG), his value range is actually empty OTR, yet another reason we can't fold here.

I think he has enough AT, KT, QT, JT in his range to make the call. He is going to have 88 and T8 sometimes, but those are the only 2 hands that you are worried about.