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Old 07-07-2020, 05:38 PM   #1
TomCollins
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Club Can I fold Aces? + Bonus Flopped Top 2

$300 Effective, 1/2 live. Table is relatively tight for a 1/2 game but still has villains who play any two suited, but no especially wild players. One aggressive player who 3 bet my UTG AA on the button and folded to my 4 bet earlier (who isn't in the hand).


Hand 1:

Table is 8-handed due to COVID, playing with 7.

A few limps, I am on button with AA. I make it 15. I get 4 callers.

Flop is 268

Checked to me, I bet 35, folded to MP Villain who calls.

Turn is 4.

Checked to me, I bet 50, he fumbles with chips looking like he was going to call, then makes it 150.

I have 200 behind. My action?


Hand 2:

Also $300 effective.

I am UTG, game is 6 handed. I get JT. I open to 10. I get called by the Hijack, CO, Button, and BB.

Flop: JT4.

BB donks into me for $15. I make it $60. HJ folds. CO says "that's strong" thinks, then calls. BB folds.

Turn is A. I check. Villian bets $80.

I have $230 behind. My action?
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Old 07-07-2020, 07:15 PM   #2
QuadJ
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Re: Can I fold Aces? + Bonus Flopped Top 2

Hand 1: Knowing nothing else about player I fold the first time he does this. This is a classic "shaky because he has a set" action but it's also so common and well know I have seen people fake it.

With some players you also have to consider they might have a worse over pair. For this knowing the order of action preflop and on the flop also matters a lot along with knowing villain better.

Hand 2: This is an easier fold because a bunch of the hands that call flop moved ahead. KQ/AJ/AT all beat you now. Plus there is a good chance he already had you beat when he called your raise on the flop, JJ/TT/44 are all in his range. $60 is enough that villain should have very few draws.
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Old 07-07-2020, 08:28 PM   #3
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Re: Can I fold Aces? + Bonus Flopped Top 2

Quote:
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Hand 1: Knowing nothing else about player I fold the first time he does this. This is a classic "shaky because he has a set" action but it's also so common and well know I have seen people fake it.

With some players you also have to consider they might have a worse over pair. For this knowing the order of action preflop and on the flop also matters a lot along with knowing villain better.
Villain had a pretty big stack at the game when I sat, and never got out of line and overall seemed solid and not overly aggressive. I had been fairly aggressive and hadn't shown a hand down (although I had some really strong hands, but they didn't know this).

The shaking and knocking over chips seemed 100% genuine. I don't see this guy checkraising an overpair here. I don't think he has TT or better since he limped, and had raised some preflop.

Preflop he limped first or second to act, a few other limpers, then I raised, and there was at least a call or two between me and him.

Quote:
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Hand 2: This is an easier fold because a bunch of the hands that call flop moved ahead. KQ/AJ/AT all beat you now. Plus there is a good chance he already had you beat when he called your raise on the flop, JJ/TT/44 are all in his range. $60 is enough that villain should have very few draws.
On this one I somewhat regret just not betting the flop and folding to a raise. Checking opens up myself to getting bluffed by diamonds, including an ace of diamonds unpaired. I am not worried I am beat on the flop. He seemed to hesitate. I also didn't think I was beat on the flop, really only worried about 44 here, and that connected a board, he likely would 3 bet me. KQ or two diamonds are my most likely hands that I'm against here. I count more diamonds hands than KQ combos, but I'm also behind aces up (either now or at the river). I hold a jack and ten so that cuts out a ton of set combos.

Draws he can have can be quite good calls here, he can have overcards + draws. I think I underestimated AJ here, but given the J was a diamond I think that''s less likely.

In any case I call, and river is a 6. Now what.
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Old 07-07-2020, 09:13 PM   #4
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Re: Can I fold Aces? + Bonus Flopped Top 2

H1 I'd go bigger on every street. Fold to the turn x/r.

H2 fold pre. I personally don't open this until CO. Raise flop bigger. x/c this sizing. He could easily play Axdd or combo draws this way, or hands like QJ that perceive your check as weakness and want to protect. T4/J4 are probably in there too. He probably has KQ or AJ though. I wouldn't bet the turn. This is the 2nd worst turn for your hand and we want to pot control and see if and how much he chooses to bet.

x/f river
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Old 07-08-2020, 10:20 AM   #5
QuadJ
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Re: Can I fold Aces? + Bonus Flopped Top 2

Hand 1: The order of action should preclude any worse overpairs. If he had a big one he limp/raises and small ones are not worth a raise.

Given that the fold is a little easier.

Hand 2: Once you get to the river check/evaluate. If you got to the river you think villain has enough draws that missed that you have to consider picking off a bluff. Villain's betting range here should be polarized, either big hands or missed draws. I probably did discount AX diamond draws too much on the turn. Those hands should be happy to check behind on the river though because your turn call indicates you have something or a huge draw.

When considering villain's range on the turn remember there are a lot of flush draws that could be in his range but they had to call on the flop. Your big bet should filter out a lot of them. Only the better ones like AdQd are likely to stick around.
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Old 07-08-2020, 05:48 PM   #6
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Re: Can I fold Aces? + Bonus Flopped Top 2

H1: As played, I’d fold. The even $100 on top at $1/$2 is a fairly reliable sign of strength.

I would have sized larger OTT … and pre given the table dynamic.

H2: As played, fold. Flop comment seems to rep strength. Many hands moved ahead including the AdTx combos that called the flop raise.

Pre is an ez fold - building a pot OOP with JTo into a field of opponents who can't fold.
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Old 07-09-2020, 11:52 AM   #7
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Re: Can I fold Aces? + Bonus Flopped Top 2

H1 is a fold. Not really much to think about tbh.

H2- unless you think villain is betting AdXd a lot here like this, it's a fold. WB/SA situation.
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Old 07-10-2020, 01:33 PM   #8
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Re: Can I fold Aces? + Bonus Flopped Top 2

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Originally Posted by samo View Post
H1: As played, Id fold. The even $100 on top at $1/$2 is a fairly reliable sign of strength.

I would have sized larger OTT and pre given the table dynamic.

H2: As played, fold. Flop comment seems to rep strength. Many hands moved ahead including the AdTx combos that called the flop raise.

Pre is an ez fold - building a pot OOP with JTo into a field of opponents who can't fold.
Agree preflop is loose, although I had been pretty consistently taking down pots on the flop with loose passive pre, then fold any non-top pair hand to any pressure after caused me to do this a bit looser and looser until I got caught. I had never seen a 1/2 table go this few times to showdown on hands, wasn't getting value out of my stronger hands due to their foldouts (along with some people showing better hands they were folding). Did not expect that many calls, which was almost always heads up or three handed before that.



Results for both below:

Hand 1:
Spoiler:


Hand 2:
Spoiler:
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Old 07-10-2020, 02:03 PM   #9
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Re: Can I fold Aces? + Bonus Flopped Top 2

Spoiler:
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Old 07-10-2020, 06:10 PM   #10
WaitingOnAP
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Re: Can I fold Aces? + Bonus Flopped Top 2

man the worst play here is that you showed tbh. Never ever show that.
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Old 07-10-2020, 11:16 PM   #11
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Re: Can I fold Aces? + Bonus Flopped Top 2

LOL @ making folds face up

Spoiler:
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Old 07-16-2020, 09:48 PM   #12
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Re: Can I fold Aces? + Bonus Flopped Top 2

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Spoiler:
But I'm a station so folding face up is good for business.

Case in point, I had guy 3 barrel into my kings and queens after this and got paid off quite well (with A and K on the flop, respectively).
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Old 07-17-2020, 04:53 PM   #13
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Re: Can I fold Aces? + Bonus Flopped Top 2

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Originally Posted by TomCollins View Post
But I'm a station so folding face up is good for business.

Case in point, I had guy 3 barrel into my kings and queens after this and got paid off quite well (with A and K on the flop, respectively).
I am curious how you made that call, especially considering you made such a hero lay down here.
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Old 07-18-2020, 02:26 PM   #14
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Re: Can I fold Aces? + Bonus Flopped Top 2

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I am curious how you made that call, especially considering you made such a hero lay down here.
Different opponents. The guy would bet 100% of the time if checked to him heads up.

The first opponent was reasonably tight, never saw him out of line and really don't think he's making that move where I've shown strength when the board has zero plausible draws. I could see someone spazzing with tens there perhaps, but I figure he's far more likely to call than raise. Just don't think I'm ever ahead in that case, where I raise pre, bet strong flop, bet strong turn.

Second guy was just super aggro, saw him try to make a move on a guy who had an obvious flush previously. I check-called rather than bet into the guy and got raised. First one was the QQ hand and K is less likely than an ace, saw him do it once to me - I'm calling medium bets with QQ there all day against guys like this, and he mucked rather than even showdown at river, then he did the same thing again. Guys like that can't help themselves. Just check to them, they bet, you call. Sometimes they have it, most the time thy have ****.
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