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Button ranges. Button ranges.

09-23-2014 , 08:07 AM
Lately, I've noticed I have narrowed my button opening range for whatever stupid reason. Lately I've been folding a lot of lower connectors i.e. 54s, 67o, 78o, 89o to mp raises. How bad is it to 3! knowing these villains are never folding pre after opening? I was wondering if button ranges depend more on the dynamic of the players in the blinds and/or the player who opened the pot or if it depends more on your table image. I have an extremely "bluffy, aggressive" type image at the local game I play in, but players still seem to never find folds in almost every pot I open/3! on the button. I'd like to hear some thoughts on this. Thanks.
Button ranges. Quote
09-23-2014 , 08:22 AM
This question is just so nebulous, and going to be hard to give you a straight answer, but obviously: It depends.

There's so mcuh to consider here:
What are the stack sizes of the people in the hand?
How will they play in a 3bet pot?
What sorts of hands are they going to 4bet?
How are the people in the middle and behind you going to react?
How would they have played in a single raised pot if you didn't 3bet?
Are you any good post flop?
Etc...

You would be much better served to post specific hands and ask about those when you have reads and have a hand that you are thinking about 3betting or flatting and getting responses that way.
Button ranges. Quote
09-23-2014 , 08:31 AM
Your message is a bit 'all over the place' ...

You talk about opening, then folding to 3bets .. Then you talk about people 'never finding a fold' against a bluffy type player? Why would they?

With your image it should be 'expected' to defend your button wide. Thus you really shouldn't expect people to fold when you open or 3bet. This really shouldn't give you the long term green light to bloat a pot your not a favorite to win!! Let them open and use your image against their smaller range when the board dictates it ... either by hitting your hand or (more importantly) missing theirs. This is classic DNegreanu small ball play .. works in both cash and tournaments.

Where the table dynamic comes in is your 3bet sizing. You don't really want to battle in multi-way pots with your range IMO. So adjust your 3bet to a size that gets you HU ... and that will be table dependent. HU play will also protect your stack a bit more since the pot gets bigger faster with multiple players (nothing new there!!) Mix up your 3bet sizes to keep the opponents off balance ...

You have a wide range, no reason to bloat the pot with 3bet if you cant take down a pot or 2 along the way or thin the field. If you want to defend by opening the betting, then thats fine too, but be ready to be 3bet into along the way also.

The wider the range, the smaller the average pots you want to play since you will hit less often. Use your post-Flop ability against the narrower ranges to make up the difference and suck them in when you hit the jackpot Flops!! GL
Button ranges. Quote
09-23-2014 , 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20
Your message is a bit 'all over the place' ...

You talk about opening, then folding to 3bets .. Then you talk about people 'never finding a fold' against a bluffy type player? Why would they?

With your image it should be 'expected' to defend your button wide. Thus you really shouldn't expect people to fold when you open or 3bet. This really shouldn't give you the long term green light to bloat a pot your not a favorite to win!! Let them open and use your image against their smaller range when the board dictates it ... either by hitting your hand or (more importantly) missing theirs. This is classic DNegreanu small ball play .. works in both cash and tournaments.

Where the table dynamic comes in is your 3bet sizing. You don't really want to battle in multi-way pots with your range IMO. So adjust your 3bet to a size that gets you HU ... and that will be table dependent. HU play will also protect your stack a bit more since the pot gets bigger faster with multiple players (nothing new there!!) Mix up your 3bet sizes to keep the opponents off balance ...

You have a wide range, no reason to bloat the pot with 3bet if you cant take down a pot or 2 along the way or thin the field. If you want to defend by opening the betting, then thats fine too, but be ready to be 3bet into along the way also.

The wider the range, the smaller the average pots you want to play since you will hit less often. Use your post-Flop ability against the narrower ranges to make up the difference and suck them in when you hit the jackpot Flops!! GL
That was a great response. Thanks. I'm horrible at posting.
Button ranges. Quote
09-23-2014 , 09:52 PM
Small connectors, suited or not, are easily dominated.

I hate to fold ANYTHING on the button, I will limp small connectors but rarely call a raise.

But there is no point in 3-betting small connectors from the button, it's -EV because the opener has a raising hand, and anyone else coming in has a hand that can call a raise, why put yourself in that shape? Wait until you WANT them to call the 3-bet.

Now, RAISING on the button is a different story, lots of reasons to raise on the button. Allow yourself the "fun" of "having it your way" with 2-bets, not 3-bets. Anyone who calls you now (except perhaps the blinds and sometimes UTG if they called) has already implied they DON'T have a raising hand. And 2/3 of the time they won't hit the flop.
Button ranges. Quote
09-23-2014 , 10:00 PM
Thanks for the response. That completely makes sense.
Button ranges. Quote
09-23-2014 , 10:27 PM
The suited connector type hands play better multiway so in general its better to limp/call behind multiple limper/callers on the button imo. On the other hand, if say maybe the HJ opens and he is a thinking player, you can pick up some dead money 3 betting with J10s or something. This especially important when you have someone posting or buying the button and there is a little extra dead money in there.
Button ranges. Quote
09-23-2014 , 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjpure
The suited connector type hands play better multiway so in general its better to limp/call behind multiple limper/callers on the button imo. On the other hand, if say maybe the HJ opens and he is a thinking player, you can pick up some dead money 3 betting with J10s or something. This especially important when you have someone posting or buying the button and there is a little extra dead money in there.
Excellent advice. One of the local games I play in is filled with stations. So, I should probably start narrowing my 3! range on the button and just limp normal ranges i.e. 54s, 67s, 78s, when multiple limps and opening those hands from the button when not many limps into the pot. Does that make sense?
Button ranges. Quote
09-24-2014 , 12:20 AM
In a game filled with bad players who cause a lot of multi-way limped pots, you should be widening your limping range OTB.
Button ranges. Quote
09-24-2014 , 01:06 AM
Thanks for the response.
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