9 handed 1/2 live ..
heros stack is 170 and on button with AK unsuited.

Handed limped 3 times before it gets to me on button and i make it 12.

SB,BB and first limper calls. Second limper(villian- 320) raises the pot. Makes it 75.3rd limper folds to me on button.

My image is solid at the table, have only shown up with solid hands thus far but feel that the back raise may have come about due to a feeling that I was more raising as a result of being on the button than due to being necessarily strong.

As far as I'm concerned its an obvious shove/fold .. To me it doesn't make sense for villian to have been the second limper into a pot with a big pair, table was very limpy in general and surely a premium pair doesn't want to see a flop 5/6 ways with a big pair? Villian is a decent reg, better than most of table and capable of a play in this spot IMO.

My feeling is that villian has a low to medium pair but may not neccesarily fold as he might think hes in decent enough shape and pot committed.

I end up folding due to lack of investment thus far and feeling I can pick significantly better spots against a poor table in general. Only having 12 invested I didnt want to risk him calling off with 77-99 and end up flipping due to him believing hes priced in.

What hands can you normally expect villian to have in this spot? Should I fold/shove and am I right in saying its a 100% fold/shove spot? Has he fold equity in this spot? .. I'd appreciate thoughts on hand.

These spots facing back raises are the largest problem I feel I face live trying to put people on hands and the largest area for improvement to be made in my game.

Apparently you haven't played much live poker. This is QQ+ almost always, heavily weighted towards KK+.

If villain has not been aggressive preflop and isn't short stacked, then a limp/raise is almost always AA/KK. If the villain is short and limp/shoves he will have a lot more middle pairs in his range and a very aggressive/bluffy villain might 3 bet bluff like this. Neither seems to apply here, and I'm folding the first time a particular villain does this without much concern.

I am noting who did this because if he starts doing this multiple times, then at some point he has to be bluffing and AK should come over the top. Judging when though is a fine art.

I don't agree with that. The first limper into a pot who subsequently re-raises often has QQ+. Put yourself in a position on a 9 handed limpy table that has been seeing unraised pots pre flop in 40-50% of hands. Hand has already been limp opened, why on earth would you limp with a big pair thereafter and invite whole table or at least a high number of players to limp and see flop which anyone can flop 2 pair and all sorts of draws on with rags, surely just invites trouble and isn't a sensible way to play premiums.

Your right that it isn't sensible, but it happens way more then you would expect. Particularly at 1/2, there are a lot of villains who's limp/raise range is exactly AA and until they show otherwise, I'm not giving them a range wider then AK/JJ+. The raise is big enough you are stuck between shove and fold, and until villain has showed a lot of aggression or bluffs, I'm letting this go.

It's close for sure, I personally would have made it bigger on the Btn raise after 3 limper, to about 15, coz it's too cheap when you are doing it for value, and it's not going to get enough fold when you are bluffing (raising/ISO-ing light)

But given you raise 12, and he back raise to 75, there are 45+ in the pot already not counting his raise, I think he would do that enough with 99-JJ enough, not to mention AQss that your AK does well against that range. You have blockers to AA and KK, so chance are you are good plenty of the times.

Your stack sizes also doesn't allow you too much room as well. I would have jammed with AK there. and Make a note on what he did back raise with

After I folded he showed KQ suited which I was obviously crushing.. Bit of a sick one. Anyway, built stack up to 210 in a half hour or so and then 5 bet shoved Kings into same villian's Aces. The combination of the two hands almost made me ill. Under certain circumstances I'd get away from KK when 4 bet but against this villian I couldnt.

So what's your problem? Either the limper planned to limp with the intent to reraise, or he made a snap decision to reraise after he saw you raise from the button. Given a passive table, I don't see that he planned that. (Though there is always that possibility in that a lot of low limit players have fallen in love with the tactic and mis/over-use it.) I'd expect your vill to show up a lot of the time with middle pocket pairs or better.

Not much you can do about it until you observe (preferably in a pot you're not interested in) what hands with which your limper will re-pop, from what positions, and for what reasons. If it's just something you see occasionally, don't worry about it. As you said, you have only $12.00 invested at this point. If it's habitual, you'll get your chance to punish him.

I think this is a close spot, and it is going to depend a lot on what you have put together about Villains play, and what he may think about your raise here on the button.

You don't really give any info on the V, but to say that you felt he might not have given your raise from the button the credit you might deserve from your otherwise tight play? So that leads me to believe we should open up his range a bit in this spot.

If that was a pretty strong feeling, then I assume you have some kind of guess on hands he might play this way, in particular limp, and then re-raise you large.

I think you can rule out most of the TT-KK top pocket pairs, because most don't really like to play those going multiway, 95% of the time they'd put in a raise.

I would be right on the border line of shoving over his raise, I think it's close to even.
I think either way is fine, without enough info on V I would probably fold and figure out how he plays a bit better.

OP, in my experience, this is KK+ a good amount of the time if a fish does it.

but actually, even solid players do this from time to time as well if they're against a habitual squeezer. it looks so FOS they know aggros will pay them off.

it's not a bad fold

My problem is I've seen it twice, once in two different sessions. Both times I had opened pot following a mid position limp/limpers. In prior session I was in CO with QJ suited. Raised, comes back around to limper and he raises pot, I fold and he shows J9.. Granted that particular opponent was very good but its got to stage where I'm wondering is my image leading to people taking shots at me.

In that spot and in one described in this thread I had villians crushed, sensed weakness, tanked on both occasions, (in QJ hand I just thought a shove would get a fold, AK hand I thought I was ahead/racing) but couldnt pull trigger on both occasions and folded..

Now granted I only lost a combined total of 22.00 in both pots but my folds left behind 170ish combined in dead money if I had jammed both hands and got 2 folds, or potentially won me a combined total of 750ish if both pots had played out and my 70ish% hands held up.

So basically I'm somewhat frustrated. Good reads, lack of balls. Possible image problems or maybe just crafty opponents.

Yeah Villian had been at table only 5/6 orbits but had played hands aggressively to that point and hadn't been to show down much.

Yeah I was almost sure he was on a small to medium pair. The biggest issue I had was racing when table in general was weak to the point where I was accumulating chips easy enough playing smallball. In my head I wasnt sure was he folding a pair for the remainder of my stack having already put 75 in. I was surprised when he turned over KQ. The fear of been called and racing was what made me fold.

This is horribly results oriented thinking. Unless villains at 1/2 are suddenly splashy playmaker (hint, they're not) your OP V has KK+ almost always. It maaaay be that these villains see you as weak tight, but most 1/2 players aren't that observant.

Yeah if you are really confident that 1. His range here is super weighted to pocket pairs and 2. He's going to still call you down with them Then yeah, it's a race you'd rather pass up.

But, I think it is more likely than not that a V's range here has a good chunk, at least 40-50%, of hands that you are well ahead of. But again this is going to depend a LOT on the player, so you need to pay attention to their play. I would agree your FE is pretty low, but still you've got some going for you, he might fold the lower end of his pocket pairs.

I know 1/2 players typically aren't splashy playmakers but in Ireland casino NL games are exceptionally rare to my knowledge above 1/2. You get games with a near mandatory straddle that are very deepstacked but they're usually still 1/2 rather than 2/5. As a result standard playing 1/2 isnt as bad as Vegas by any stretch for the most part IMO and you do get a lot of regs and self proclaimed pros playing at that level. The villian in question fits the description, hence the thought process envoked in this hand. Elsewhere, or even against different opponents, I accept the typical villians range is tighter.

Why on Earth would someone call with garbage? Why on Earth would someone not raise when they are last to act on the river and have the nuts? I don't know, but I've seen these mistakes (and the first one is a mistake I see every time I play). I think it's a mistake to assume your opponents won't make a certain play because it's irrational. People make dumb mistakes all the time in poker.

Expecting villains to think the same way you think is a leak.

I've raised many times in EP after a limper and still ended up in plenty of awkward spots, so it doesn't surprise me when players do the limp reraise. I usually see aces when someone makes that play. And the play does have some appeal because when it works, the pot tends to get much bigger preflop.

A lot of players love to play passively with big hands after the flop and hope that someone else shows aggression, so I don't why we should suddenly expect aggressive play with big hands before the flop.

I would jam and expect to see AJ/AQ/77-99 type hands very often- i.e., hands villain doesn't want to raise with the first time around, then doesn't want to fold to raise or call a raise.

Lots of dead money overlay, like 25% of your stack- if SB/BB/first limper all folded, then I would fold.

The secret to not be exploitable is to play tighter against these villains - and only put a bankroll on the table that you can "gamble" with - meaning if you think you're good - shove. Obviously - Vs will wake up with a hand (like AA) but by studying their betting/calling habits more closely - you become better and determining when V is trying to bet you off your hand, or betting his hand.

Also check out John Vorhaus' article on "wobble." It gives you some insight on advanced plays that experienced players like to do.