Sorry if this is in wrong forum...but it's come up in some of my hand postings and its a challenge I need a solution for... the equity vs villaiins range argument pervades these forums - and Im down with it.

But how do you poker ballers do it at the live tables when poker stove is unavailable? Im sure some of you can do it in your heads, but most can't id assume. Are there shortcuts?

Wager9

Get an app for your phone. I use PkrCruncher.

Pretty sure that's not allowed at the table.

All you can do is make an educated guess, the more you do it, the better you get at it.
I don't think anyone can actually calculate these things at a live table, well obviously a chosen few can, but the other 99% of us can't.

Not allowed to whip out my phone and do calculations mid-hand at the casino I play at (or any casino?). Would be nice though...I can't play online either (I am in MD) so it looks like just guesstimation and practice is the recipe?

i love this post. thank you for bringing this up. this point is very true and valid. you can talk or hours on the forums of all the ideal ways to prepare for sessions, play, and deal with tilt etc. using pokerstove calcs being part of the "playing" part, but how many of these things talked about are actually implemented in a live setting? or even possible to implement (pokerstove mostly isnt)?

my method for ranging at a table looks like this

- memorize what a 5%, 10%, 20%, 30% range is
- put villains on one of those range preflop and note if they play all suited connector/gappers or not (usually they do or dont)
- use their postflop action to decide what the majority of their range is for that spot, dont care about the slightly unlikely hands for them to have
- make best action after putting them on a range

example

villain 1 limps ep (30% all sc player)
i raise 5bb mp (20%)
villain 2 calls lp (20%)
villain 1 calls

flop T83cch

villain 1 checks
i bet 2/3 pot
villain 2 calls
villain 1 calls

turn As
villain 1 checks
i bet 3/4 pot
villain 2 folds
villain 1 calls

river Ah
villain one ships for about 1 psb
i have (most of my 20% range), action?

call with all of my range that beats busted fd/sd, because i range villain 1 to be mostly draws out of his range at this point. there is a small chance he had nfd, but remember just ignore the very small parts of his range and make best choice based on the largest part of his range which is busted fd and sd

Lol no.

Oh, you meant literally when you're in the middle of a hand...Yes, practice your mental math haha.

The reality is the true value of pokercruncher or pokerstove is doing your homework away from the table. Serious players have spent many hours looking at situations and figuring out the odds so that when they are at the table, they know the answer without doing calculations.

Responding to strat threads is a great way to develop this memory.

This. Equity is too complex to figure out live. The fall back is odds, which general only tell you when to call - not bet or raise.

You'll only make an educated guess once for life. When you get home after a new situation, stove it, and you know the EV exactly henceforth.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...2-4-a-1168512/

Why is that app "lol no?"

Its not. Using it in the middle of a hand is.

I would suggest working on your ability to figure out combanatorics at the table. Once you start practicing you dont stop and its extremely useful to figure out the combinations of hands you beat versus beat you and then which of those are in villains range. This can all be done at the table relatively quickly and you'll start to get a better feel for bet/fold hands versus check/fold hands on the river.

Gotcha. Thought you meant there was a better app or something. I didn't think the guy who suggested the app meant to use it during a hand though.