So, Im debating whether building a loose image at a 1/2 game is even worth it. If you figure the average fish isn't staying at the table all day, whats the point of bluffing into him and getting caught if he's just going to take off without giving you a chance at trapping him? I played a session today where I had this guy perfectly set up, but he didn't stay long enough for me to trap him, and I'm wondering if my 3 barrel semi bluff was worth it as opposed to taking a more conservative line without the intention of building an image. Also, keep in mind, I'm assuming most other players arn't exactly paying attention to every hand, so lets say you are trying to set up 1 other player.

No it isn't. Most of your money comes from the people churning through stacks with top pair. You can sit there and play 1-2 hands an hour and you'll get ****loads of action. Especially if you're young looking and/or talk at the table.

Play good ABC poker and watch for spots where you can exploit specific things your opponents do. You don't have to try to induce mistakes, your opponents are making plenty of mistakes already. Exploit those

It's really not. Within a couple hours my table has recycled and there's all new people at the table. People also love to hit and run. Patience and value betting is the key to 1/2 and 1/3.

In LLSNL, we just need to play solid and patient poker. Balancing ranges and confusing your opponents are much more applicable in higher stakes. Here, we just sit and patiently wait our turn.

Thanks for the clarification guys.

It's not super important but not unimportant. I've folded for an hour at times and only seen flops when checked to my BB. People still limp call ace rag it's hilarious. But I would say even at 1/2 it's quite important if you have good regs at your table. People don't really think things through on earlier streets but if you've been caught bluffing once or twice it definitely will affect their decision making vs you on turns/river and help them stack off TPNK vs you IMO.

I think showing a cbet or double barrel or showing that you opened JTs in EP is quite important. Makes you look like less of a nit so when you are value betting (which should be the main source of your profit at 1/2) you get more action.

Just don't be like 2013 me and go out of your way to build that image. I remember I used to 3 bet light into the wrong villains just cause I was afraid of being labeled a nit and getting no action. That plus a cbet getting called by A8s on an A74 flop is a horrible way to donate half a stack.

I get what youre saying, on a typical night my table may turn over almost all players 3 times. Its less about creating an image than it is playing well, if you play well youll have a strong image.

I'd start off with why you want to have a loose image? If you "gain" this image, what do you plan to do with it?

The Bobby Hoff interview in HOC does a nice job of going over image. People don't see something once and decide that you're a certain type of player. If you spew off one hand, then nit up for 2 hours, you're a nit to them. A reason is that most players can't remember a hand 10 minutes after it happened unless it was something significant to them. If you're losing hands in one session, it won't matter to them if you won the last 100 sessions in a row. You're a loser tonight. IMO, an image is something you exploit as it is happening, not something you try to create artificially.

The best I can figure is that you plan to spew one hand, then wait for a monster to get paid off. It isn't going to work.

There aren't really good regs at 1/2 because they all make money and move up to 2/5. But, if you are at a table with good regs, switch tables. Table selecting is going to be like 35% of your winrate if you're doing it right.

To follow on to what Venice said, I would argue that for a sizable percentage of our villains, it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to develop a certain image, that is, most of our villains will see what they want to see.

Villains often see what they want to see or believe what they want to believe so they can do whatever it is that they want to do. If they want to call, they will soul read you for the exact hand they beat. If they want to fold, they'll read you for a monster.

There is this hollywoodize mythos in poker in wanting to have a "loose" image so you get paid later. Truth is, poker is about exploiting "whatever" image you have. Personally, I prefer a tight image because it allows me to bluff more since we miss way more than we smash the boards. Regardless I can exploit whatever image I have.

Lastly, majority of our villains at LLSNL are level 1 players and image hardly factors into their actions. They play according to their cards.

"Building an image" is the most overrated concept in LLSNL IMO. It's a point of particular tilt inducement for me whenever I read about it.

Others have elaborated already. What's more likely in LLSNL:
A)Not getting action
B)Gettig paid off

Its hard enough to not unintentionally spew. Don't add intentional donations on top. Save it for the united way man. Learn to use whatever image it is that you have. Personally is rather have the image of someone who wins every pot he plays.

I'm not advocating intentional spew. Just muck your sets when you don't get paid but if you double barrel a combo draw and they fold, show!

Why? Unless you will be playing many hours against these opponents, I would argue that the equity you potentially gain from showing is worth less than the fold equity you are forfeiting.

Spot on. If I can double barrel over and over I'm in heaven. I can do that all night every night variance free. Giving that up is horrible. Showing in general is horrible.

I'd rather not have too much fold equity. IMO we shouldn't be relying on barreling villains off middle pair at 1/2. We should be relying on value betting and thin value. If showing a missed flush draw will help me get that thin value where villain will call my triple barrel with KJ on a AJ5 2 5 runout while he would fold river if he's never seen me bluff then I'm definitely showing to build that image. I just wouldn't barrel weak draws like gutshots into stations to build that image.

Glad I didn't read this post while I was playing because it would have definitely tilted me.

You just aren't getting it. "Building" an image in LLSNL is an exercise in futility. It's like trying to push sand up a hill and being frustrated that it keeps falling down.

The key is to RECOGNIZE what your perceived image is and THEN exploit that perceived image, whatever that image is....

You are leveling yourself if you think you can "build" an image. For the sake of argument, lets say that your villains will buy into whatever image you are spending all this time and money building. So what? Fact is the VAST majority of them are still not going to change their games and adjust. They will just continue to play level 1 poker and play according to the strength of their cards. Stations are still gonna station, nits are still gonna nit, donks are still gonna donk.

It's not like some rec-fish ABC player sees your bluff that you did 30 minutes ago and then is going to call you down with 99 on a A J 4 3 T all the while thinking, "Yeah, I remember that bluff therefore my 99 is good"

and showing bluffs is just ego and 99% of the time you are better off just never showing. I know, it feels awesome to show the bluff and nod your head like, "ya, i'm da-schit" while basking in the light of your poker brilliance... but showing bluffs is just giving information away to your villains and it is just better to keep them guessing and thinking incorrectly...

If you want to build an image, don't do it via the cards.

There was this younger guy I played with for a couple of weeks last summer, me and him managed to always have 200BB+ at the same table, and even thought he wasn't amazing, he knew enough that I was solid and it was difficult getting big pots off of him. But one days he paid off a guy with ridiculously bad turn and river calls and I was thinking, how did that guy get paid off, I would have never gotten paid off like that. As soon as the guy sat down he was talking to everyone, he came with chips he must've been involved in bigger pots earlier, his persona which had nothing to do with how he played, made guys think he was a lot looser than he was.I'd build an image that way, not just lose hands purposefully.

To add on to DGI:

The optimal style in LLSNL is ultra exploitive play. I want to identify my villains biggest weaknesses and shamelessly attack them. I want to turn what they do the most into a huge leak. If I'm showing bluffs to "build an image" I'm really just reinforcing something that is already really strongly ingrained in my oppoents: calling too much. If I run into someone who is weak post flop, I'm not going to try to trick them into changing. It's way easier to just let them do what they're going to do. I don't want to fight their natural tendency. I want to cultivate it. Why? Because I don't want to play against a nit. I don't want to play against a station. I want to play against a predictable nit. I want to play against a predictable station. Once I try to get them to start adjusting to something, they lose that predictability and I can't own them over and over and over.

It's like the old adage. You can sheer a sheep many times but only skin him once. I'm probably going to skin that weak player but I might as well sheer him as long as I can too.

I almost did that last night. Put on a big bluff on the river and wanted to show so bad but ultimately it was just me trying to stroke my ego more than anything.

Agree 100%. If people fold too much you're supposed to be aggressive but not to build an image -- because that's how you take advantage of the leak in their play.

If someone wants them to change they could buy them a book on poker and help them improve.

100x this. Players at this level are just not paying attention to anything other than their two cards. Last session I was card dead and folded almost every hand for two hours. People commenting on how tight I was, etc. Get AK and miss, double barrel a Q high board and get shoved on OTT. I fold and villain turns over top pair ****ty kicker. My tight as hell image meant nothing, he had top pair and wasn't folding. Wait for a good hand and value bet the hell out of it, that's the way to win.

I never cease to be amazed how often some ubber nit with a VPIP of 8% and a PFR of 2% gets paid off.

They sit, nut peddle all day, play like 3 hands an hour and then take a 40bb - 80bb chunk out of some donk. During the hand , said donk will comment on how tight the nit is and say "you probably have AA/KK okay I call". Then the nit shows AA/KK and the donk proclaims proudly "i knew it" .

In fact, in all my years of play, I've yet to not see it. LOL playing right now and as I type this it just happened LOL... donk paid off a nit shove for 120bb. Nit had AKcc on Kh 9c 8c Ad board, donk had 9h 8h and couldn't find a fold LOL gave the speech then called.

It really is amazing. I played with an old woman for 10 hours once who literally only played sets or better. She would check down her AA or KK if it didn't hit.

The guy next to her said out loud "you only put money in the pot when you flop a set or better". He folded and showed bottom set against her once (she showed top set). Other players doubled her up three times though. She walked away +$400 only playing flopped sets, flushes, and full houses. Every time she hit a huge hand, she pushed all in. Almost every time, someone called her.

I like building an image in MTT's because you are going to play more hands because of the escalating blinds. This will help change gears. Live Cash, don't do it unless you have a specific agenda and reason to do so.

This is backwards. You want to have the image I a nit wen you hit the middle portion of a tourney so you can steal pots when blinds and antes are worth the most. I can't think of a worse time to have no FE.