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Old 04-14-2014, 12:55 AM   #1
MSentry88
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Bottom set on turn, villain is allin

Game: 1/3 $200 max buyin

Hero (UTG+1): 25 White male. Viewed as nitty this session. Only hands that have been shown down by hero are 99 and AK. One won, one lost - both in large pots. Other hands have been won or lost on the flop. Stack $180

V1 (UTG): 30 White male. Competent LAG. Has been Cbetting almost 100% of the time into however many players, but almost always shows a winner in showdown. Probably opens twice per orbit on average. Is stuck this session, but has $500 stack.

V2 (MP): 35 Asian male. Huge calling station/betting station. Will call any amount for any amount of barrels with any piece of the flop. If it is checked to him, he will bet with any piece of the flop. Stack $180

V1 raises $12 UTG (standard raise). Hero flats UTG+1 with 44. V2 flats in MP. Random irrelevant V flats on button.

Flop (pot $48): AQ4

V1 checks. Hero bets $35. V2 flats. V1 flats.

V2 will call with any piece of the flop given the action. His range is any hearts, any straight draw, any queen, any ace.

V1's line screams huge strength. I don't have a range for him and figure it will be more defined on the turn.

Turn (Pot $153): K

V1 checks. Hero checks because V2 will bet with his entire range here (he would bet QT, KJ, A2 etc) and hero can evaluate V1's action. Sure enough, V2 fires $50. V1 C/R all in, putting both me and V2 allin.

Is this a fold or a call? Why?
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Old 04-14-2014, 12:57 AM   #2
Duke0424
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Call

Bet the turn yourself

Anything he's betting with, he's also calling with
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:25 AM   #3
Snowball2
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Re: Bottom set on turn, villain is allin

Never folding a set against a lag and a station for 45bb, don't even need to stove here. Also, I don't think the lag is super strong on the flop. Either that, or he's not really a lag.

I would pot the flop for $50 because I can, then shove the turn for ~$120. Basically, yeah, what duke said. Don't check the turn.
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Old 04-14-2014, 03:30 AM   #4
RyanAA44
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Re: Bottom set on turn, villain is allin

Call
Why did you check the turn?

Fwiw, I think pre is a fold.
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Old 04-14-2014, 05:37 AM   #5
eldiesel
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Re: Bottom set on turn, villain is allin

AP insta-call.

But you're not getting the odds to mine pf, if you are it's really close to the threshold. 1/3 max 200 is an odd structure. Even if you top off to 200 (which you should always do) it's still close as to whether or not you're getting enough odds.

An important aspect though is you mined (whether correctly or incorrectly) to flop a set and double up. You flopped the set and now are hesitant to double up. In order to win big pots, other people are going to be putting money in at some point, don't be scared when it happens. You need to follow through with that hit-a-set-double-up plan.
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:23 AM   #6
Steve00007
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Re: Bottom set on turn, villain is allin

I think this is an easy call.

If villain 1 had AA or QQ then he probably bets or raises the flop with the draws out there. You can't just assume he has a higher set yet.
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Old 04-14-2014, 04:17 PM   #7
gobbledygeek
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Re: Bottom set on turn, villain is allin

If we feel we are one of the better players at the table I would top off preflop.

I would also flat preflop as I'm assuming there isn't a lot of 3betting at this table. It's not great due to our stack size (it's a fairly expensive call) plus we don't really know how many ways this is going to go (the more the merrier when setmining) plus we're going to be the first to act after the raiser (again, not great). But my guess is that setmining here will still be profitable overall.

We're committed on the flop. The board is very drawy, so I'd just pot it so that I can easily stick the rest in on the turn.

I would just stick the rest in myself on the turn instead of risking it check thru (which, even with our read on villain behind us, could still happen).

There are a bunch of two pair / pair + draw hands that could figure they have the nuts here, even given this action. This is a fist pump ship on the turn and we're feeling great about life. This turn card wasn't even all that crappy, and we would have been committed even with crappy ones anyways.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 04-14-2014, 04:35 PM   #8
PFunkaliscious
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Re: Bottom set on turn, villain is allin

you can put V1 exactly on AA, QQ, AQ, or AK. but we are too shallow to ever fold a set here. ship it in.
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Old 04-14-2014, 05:00 PM   #9
InTheDark
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Re: Bottom set on turn, villain is allin

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanAA44 View Post
Fwiw, I think pre is a fold.
Needed to be said. Needed to be highlighted.

Sets lose. Sets don't always get action. When they lose they go for a lot of chips.

15-1 is not enough. 50-1 is nice and comfortable. 20-1 is barest minimum if the players involved will action up.
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Old 04-14-2014, 05:18 PM   #10
gobbledygeek
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Re: Bottom set on turn, villain is allin

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheDark View Post
50-1 is nice and comfortable.
Small sets are funny. If you're getting it in with bottom set in a raised pot with 50:1 implied odds, my guess is that you've made a mistake against anyone but the absolute worst opponents.

Gagreesthatpreflopisnotgreat,butIdon'tthinkit'shor ribleG
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Old 04-14-2014, 05:32 PM   #11
NebDanger
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Re: Bottom set on turn, villain is allin

I don't see where the worry is on this flop or turn. The only straight made was the gutter draw, so unless someone has JThh that makes that hand highly unlikely. You're probably up against a 2 pair or pair+combo draw situation, which you should be happy to get your money in with.

I like how you played the turn seeing as how you were confident V2 would bet. AP you're probably getting his money in too now, which I thought was the plan to begin with. Check raising with the stack sizes left pretty much guarantees a call or callers.

I'd call and be happy getting my money in to triple up with one card to come
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:38 PM   #12
eldiesel
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Re: Bottom set on turn, villain is allin

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheDark View Post
Needed to be said. Needed to be highlighted.

Sets lose. Sets don't always get action. When they lose they go for a lot of chips.

15-1 is not enough. 50-1 is nice and comfortable. 20-1 is barest minimum if the players involved will action up.
Everyone knows/remembers when they lose with sets though. When you win with a set but called a big raise pf and won a small-medium pot postflop, even though you won that hand, you lost long run money. That's the important part.
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:59 PM   #13
Mr_Doomed
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Re: Bottom set on turn, villain is allin

Don't check turn, shove. you are letting all flush and straight draws seethe river for free. Kind of seems like a scared money play on the turn. MuBs syndrome.
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