1/2

Table is full of super passive fit/fold players. Hero is just raising and betting when appropriate while trying not to get too carried away. The whole table is super lame and I'm only here because moving isn't possible at the moment.

V (UTG+2) He is pretty standard passive preflop, very weak player. Has raised once or twice pre and didn't get much action, but from what I've seen has zero creativity and is just passing chips back and forth with the other weaklings. He looks like Jack Lemmon when he was alive. Not now. Now that would be horrifying Walking Dead type ****. Stack $250

Hero (BB) By far the most aggressive and active player. While not super profitable, the table is crazy predictable so I've been winning a lot of small pots and basically making an hourly wage without much variance. V probably notices but who knows if he has any idea what to do about it.


Warning: This hand is pretty boring but I have a couple of specific leaks I'm trying to rid myself of so you're gonna get a few of these for a bit.


Preflop: 4 limps and hero checks with J9.

Flop: QQT ($12)
Checks around.

Turn: QQT7 ($12)
Checks to Jack who bets $10. Folds to hero who thinks about implied and reverse implied odds (not out loud) and calls.

River: QQT7K ($32)

Is the turn worth a look? How do you play the river? It seems simple to me, BUT I'm trying to plug a leak..

I assume you have KJ?

Oops. thanks

I either thought you had KJ or J9 the way you were asking.

Flop I would definitely lead. You take it down a lot (which is good with jack high), plus you let yourself be able to barrel most turn cards (i guess the worst one would be the A, with your exact holdings). Most people usually call once with a T on the flop and fold to a turn bet.

As played, I'd fold turn (if not lead turn), and probably check/raise river.

I'm cool with preflop/flop. I don't like donking the flop as we're OOP and have zero info; I might in LP.

I would often donk the turn here. No one bet the flop so there's a decent chance no one has the Q, and it looks like we just checked the flop to tarp. I would bet small to make it look really valuey, like $5. As played, I would fold to the bet, as we need to make up 3 bets to breakeven, plus have those sucky RIO.

I would bet/fold the river. Tx definitely checks back (but *might* call a bet), and sometimes weak Qs check back (but will always call a bet). I'd probably go 3/4+ PSB, although notice how anything other than a PSB doesn't even make up what we needed on the turn to breakeven.

Gpostingin1/2threadscuz,like,zombieJackLemmonG

Thanks GG.

2 questions:

1. Is it not as likely as I'm thinking to get V to call PSB on river? I guess the RIO makes it -EV. Meh.

2. Did you click in this thread wondering if it was about you?

Well we need him to call a PSB to make our turn call breakeven, so I'm fine with a PSB on the river, especially since it's "only" $32 (although this is part of the reason I don't post in 1/2 threads cuz I'm not exactly sure how the realworld money value differs from 1/3). Take into account our RIO, plus the fact a Tx doesn't always pay off, ya, I think the turn call is pretty meh (and probably just plain bad).

GIthinkeverythreadisaboutmecuzmyegoishugeG

Villain isn't paying off a $30 pot bet on river without Qx (although sometimes he has KJ, but not really).. and if he'd only pay off $30 with Qx, he's going to bet Qx, so we can C/R river and have him call off a bigger bet with Qx.

X/r/f river. Rest looks fine.

:grunch:

I might stick in a bet on the turn myself rather than checking if everybody looks disinterested, but 'meh' either way.

At the table I call the turn bet too. I think it's a bit of a leak though. We need to extract a nice sized bet if we hit ... which I'm not sure we will OOP.

Against a passive villain I simply lead the river here for $25. Checking gets checked behind too often. He's not going to raise our lead very often and when he does we're probably facing a boat anyway. I might call a small raise if I felt he was weak while making it.

Tbh calling the turn is meh.

U r running over the table. Don't mess around with these types of spots.

Mostly, just fold.

But ... Like, y not x/r the turn to $30? He'll fold a lot.

agree with check flop, lead turn, pot river.

I think calling the turn is really bad. If we are going to call we have to have a plan to win the pot without hitting or else it is -ev. Sure, sometimes we have J/9 outs but these are mostly wiped out by the times we are crushed by a boat.

Trying a river c/r or lead bluff on a scare card is an option, but i dont recommend it. If he is bluffy you might be able to get a c/r bluff ott in. But again, given your read i just fold turn and move on.

$50 river

And if villain shoves?

I never see these types of overbets work at the room I play at.

Ya, if we're possibly going to make calling the turn profitable, overbetting the river is probably the only way.

I don't like a check/raise at all as (a) lots of hands that could payoff a bet could MUBSily check behind and (b) we let villain set his own (most likely weak) price (especially if he's folding the weaker end to a strong check/raise).

GcluelessNLnoobG

I feel like $50 folds out all of the hands we'd like to see call us against this guy. A spewer villain might call us, and had we missed I'd consider bluffing this guy with a similar sized bet, but $50 seems too much.

This is really the problem with the turn call. It puts us in a **** spot regardless of if we hit or miss.

Ya, this really comes down to the turn. If we can't expect an oversized river bet to be called a lot, then we can't possibly call the turn.

Then probably fold unless V is an idiot that thinks any Qx is the nuts, so depends on reads a little. Against a weak passive old guy who shoves over my overbet with no other reads I'm definitely folding. How often do you see someone shove over an overbet without the nuts though? Not very often. Even when someone has a hand like an underboat they often just call because they're afraid of running into the nuts.

When K hits river V should be folding most of his Tx hands and calling with all Qx, so whether you bet $25 or $50 probably doesn't make any difference to his calling range.

Doesn't feel like betting the pot (which would be a minimum to get a fold) is worth it in this spot. $12 invested, a small pot. Just check/fold. Make up some story about why you folded if need be.

Fwiw I'm a huge fan of your descriptions of Vs. Always entertaining.

Thoughts:
Why call turn to hit and ten check fold when you hit? Minimum check calling at that point.

Hate check raising.

I would play pf and flop the same. Qs and Ts are the type of cards ppl will limp with, but not raise plus we're oop. ott I don't mind leading out $6, I also don't mind checking. I'm folding the turn, even if he has a decent chunk of 7x and airballs in his range we're still making a mistake by calling. I would lead the river for 30 hoping to get a crying call from a Q or a T. I'm mostly calling a river raise unless jack lemmon is considered an old nit.

I'm an idiot.

Definite bet 1/2 pot. At the very least should get an "I'm curious" call. At the worst an overbet by V trying to now build a pot for a slowplayed boat.