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Boat vs. Raise and Re-Raise Boat vs. Raise and Re-Raise

01-09-2018 , 12:29 PM
1/2 NL with $4 UTG straddle.

Hero is in Cutoff with 6 6, $475 in stack.

V1 is Small blind, $550 in stack.

V2 is straddle, $350 in stack.

Preflop:

Couple of limpers, hero raises to 18, V1 and V2 call.

Flop (~$65 in pot) is A 9 6

Checks to Hero who C bets $40, 2 both villains call. (is this bet too light?)

Turn ($185 in pot) is the A completing the flush and boating me up. V1 now leads out for $30, V2 raises to $130...what should hero do here?
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01-09-2018 , 12:57 PM
$40 into $65, I like the sizing there, it's still giving the Villains the right odds to draw, but if you bet bigger to give them the wrong odds, you probably lose both of them.

I could make arguments for flatting or 3-betting the turn here, but given the size of V2 stack, they only have ~$160 behind after putting in the raise to $130 on the turn, so if you ship it here, I could see V2 coming along, as most folks can't fold flushes here.
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01-09-2018 , 01:05 PM
this is pretty villain dependent. Could make sense to just rip it in vs some, and trap vs others.
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01-09-2018 , 01:19 PM
with an Ace and a flush draw out there, I like a full pot bet on the flop.

I'd just flat the turn. no sense scaring off the flushes and Ax. You have position, and can pretty much dictate how much money goes in on the river. If you are up against A9 or A6, you are losing your stack. I'd rather give Ax cheap card to improve here than blow him off on the turn.
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01-09-2018 , 01:21 PM
I like a larger bet size on the flop. Your almost always getting Ax to call here, your in position, the board is fairly wet.

Flat call the turn. Your not getting better to fold and you want worse hands in. V1 range should be better than villian 2s. V1 most likely has an Ax with a spade perhaps, V2 is gonna have flushes here most of the time.

Flat call turn for sure. Pile the money in and hope its best. Your only losing to 99, A9, and if somehow they slow played AA. And boat over boat on this board is just a bad beat.
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01-09-2018 , 01:23 PM
If V1 is at all competent, he will view flatting $130 on that turn as a huge red light that you have a monster. I think shoving is by far the better play in the hopes that V1 gets spazzy with AT, AJ type hands now versus the river where he could boat up or a 4th spade could come and kill action. V2 is calling off no matter what.
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01-09-2018 , 01:42 PM
Bet bigger on the flop (pre seems a bit small, too, but table-dependent). I can go either way on the turn, but I like a flat. Make it look as if you've got AK/AQ/AJ and can't quite fold yet, because nobody can fold trip As!!!
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01-09-2018 , 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djcl86
$40 into $65, I like the sizing there, it's still giving the Villains the right odds to draw, but if you bet bigger to give them the wrong odds, you probably lose both of them.
What. Since when do we want to allow villains to make +EV plays?
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01-09-2018 , 02:11 PM
You can bet a little more otf. Any ace will call, any FD will call (this is 1/2).

I would flat the turn, hoping V1 at least flats or even better, he raises. If we raise we're pretty much telling everyone we're full.
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01-09-2018 , 02:24 PM
Villain dependent - i've even folded this vs super nits that play 1/2 but vs unknowns and 95% of players at 1/2 - never folding.

Flatting is best play
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01-09-2018 , 02:54 PM
With V’a taking initiative i’d Leave it with them. Flat the turn and then raise any non A river AI. I’m comfortable playing this one AI three ways. Some times A’s full will snap you off but that’s a cooler. Even with nut low boat I think i’m committed. If river bricks, V1 open shoves and V2 snap calls, then maybe I puke fold. Otherwise NH.
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01-09-2018 , 03:09 PM
Is there any fear of A9 or 99 here or do you guys get stacks in no matter what the river is unless it is an Ace or a 9?

Here is what happened if anyone wants to know:
Spoiler:

I felt like V2 has a flush and because of his smaller stack size is pot committed so I decide to target him. I am thinking V1 has A big Ace and would most likely fold the $100 to V2 anyway so I decided to shove. I don't want another spade killing my action on the river if V2 has a smaller flush.

V1 surprisingly goes into the tank for 5 minutes, then another player calls the clock on him (I think this is a dick move but whatever). The floor counts down to 1 and then V1 calls. V2 then tanks for about 20 seconds and folds the King high flush face up.

The river is a King which gives me a heart attack, but when I show MHIG. V1 mucks what I assume is AJ, or AQ. I scoop about a $1,000 pot, which helps me with my mindset if you saw my other "Soul Crushing Beat" post.
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01-09-2018 , 03:13 PM
Little more pre but ok.
Flop sizing is perfecto. Good.
Now call, see what v1 does.

Edit: Oh no you shoved! ugh.
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01-09-2018 , 03:14 PM
No, not worried about A9 or 99. If they have it, they have it. Most likely you are against a flush and an A.

Edit: I think shoving lost you $$$
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01-09-2018 , 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ucancallmeadmiral
What. Since when do we want to allow villains to make +EV plays?
Shove then.
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01-09-2018 , 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianatca
Is there any fear of A9 or 99 here or do you guys get stacks in no matter what the river is unless it is an Ace or a 9?

Here is what happened if anyone wants to know:
Spoiler:

I felt like V2 has a flush and because of his smaller stack size is pot committed so I decide to target him. I am thinking V1 has A big Ace and would most likely fold the $100 to V2 anyway so I decided to shove. I don't want another spade killing my action on the river if V2 has a smaller flush.

V1 surprisingly goes into the tank for 5 minutes, then another player calls the clock on him (I think this is a dick move but whatever). The floor counts down to 1 and then V1 calls. V2 then tanks for about 20 seconds and folds the King high flush face up.

The river is a King which gives me a heart attack, but when I show MHIG. V1 mucks what I assume is AJ, or AQ. I scoop about a $1,000 pot, which helps me with my mindset if you saw my other "Soul Crushing Beat" post.
If villain has A9 or even A6 its just a cooler. You should be putting him on a larger range that includes AK,AQ, AJ. Just calling also gives you the option to fold should an Ace or 9 hits the river.

Im unsure as to why a few guys here want to fold out worse hands for fear of them making a boat. Also at $1/2 most people are just playing there hands face up. The turn lead is a clear Ax, turned boat would most likely check raise not lead into 2 people. And a flush is clearly gonna raise to get value from sets.
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01-09-2018 , 07:37 PM
Must flat
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01-09-2018 , 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000
If we raise we're pretty much telling everyone we're full.
+1
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01-10-2018 , 12:38 AM


Yuck.

Any reads on villains?

This is not an easy spot. We have the babiest of boats and V2 is telling us he has exactly the A9 of which there are only 6 combos left. But V2 also puts hero on AK/AQ and perhaps V1's small bet induced him to raise with a flush or something like AJ.

Call and be prepared to stack off against V2 for his remaining 160 because people do crazy stuff in live poker. We're hoping V1 will fold. If V1 calls and there's more violence on the river we can *sigh* fold. If there's still 3 people in the hand and V1 or V2 continue to bet into two people, I don't expect to be good here.

Subject to reads, I honestly wouldn't fault a fold to the 130 raise but he probably also has flushes and semibluffs in his range.
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01-10-2018 , 12:46 AM
Lol. I'm the only person peeing myself a little when things kick off on the turn.
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01-10-2018 , 03:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogyong
Lol. I'm the only person peeing myself a little when things kick off on the turn.


I have a hard time pissing with an erection.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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01-10-2018 , 04:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibelieveyouoweme$80k
I have a hard time pissing with an erection.
That tell could be exploitable. Suggest trading in your sunglasses for a prosthetic.

Last edited by Nogyong; 01-10-2018 at 05:04 AM.
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01-10-2018 , 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
No, not worried about A9 or 99. If they have it, they have it. Most likely you are against a flush and an A.

Edit: I think shoving lost you $$$
How did shoving lose him $$? He got the V with the bigger stack to call? He was not stacking both of them on most rivers.

Shove turn was the right play.
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01-10-2018 , 11:47 AM
I am never, ever folding.
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01-10-2018 , 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorn7
How did shoving lose him $$? He got the V with the bigger stack to call? He was not stacking both of them on most rivers.

Shove turn was the right play.
Because I think they both would have come along on any river (except another pairing).
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