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Old 03-12-2018, 11:34 PM   #1
Kritecia
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Post Bluff at 2/3

Table is a bit tight, not much action. Villain is white male in his mid 20s. He has been somewhat active in this game. Effective stack is 275~

Pre-flop:

Hero: JT limped in HJ. Normally, this is my default raise here, but I had been raising a lot so I decided to mix things up a bit.
Villain: Raised to 12$.
Hero: Called.

Flop: 33A

Hero: Check.
Villain: Cbet 15.
Hero: Called.

Turn: 6
Hero: Check.
Villain: bets 40.
Hero: x/r to 90.
Villain: Called.

River: J
Hero: shove the rest 150~

When I make this turn x/r, my intention was to shove all river except an Ace. I think this guy is good enough to fold most of his Ax. My range probably looks something like 43,53, 63, A3, 66, and flush draws when I take this line. In addition, the x/r turn and shove river line seem pretty strong in this 2/3 some what nitty game to me so that is why I went for it. What do you guys think? Result coming later.
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:39 PM   #2
BackDoorFlush
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

Epic spew.
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:51 PM   #3
sierradave
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

Your perceived range doesn't include flush draws, because you floated out of position on a rainbow board.

Your hand looks like A6 trying to get value from his likely big aces. He has raised pre, bet flop, and bet-called turn. That suggests he has a strong ace.

What previous hands have you seen from him that make you think he'll fold AQ or AK to your river shove?
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:56 PM   #4
Kritecia
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

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Originally Posted by sierradave View Post
Your perceived range doesn't include flush draws, because you floated out of position on a rainbow board.

Your hand looks like A6 trying to get value from his likely big aces. He has raised pre, bet flop, and bet-called turn. That suggests he has a strong ace.

What previous hands have you seen from him that make you think he'll fold AQ or AK to your river shove?
He was active, so I do not think AQ or AK is a large portion of his range especially when he only raised to 12. I think if he has a real strong hand, then he would raise to at least 15 from what I have seen from him. I thought his range was mostly weaker Ax as well as some random flush draw that might take this line with.
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:23 AM   #5
Koss
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

lol why are you check/calling on that flop. just fold and move on to the next hand.

This probably works ok enough though. That river card is pretty good to bluff at because your J takes away a lot of AJ combos. Still that oop flop call is burning money.
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:27 AM   #6
Random Hand
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

The J on the river let’s you C/C to beat all his bluffs that would fold to a c/r. His weak AX hands would check behind on the river given that he has to think you will call another bet or c/r given your line to the river on such a dry board. And I think he will call with AK or AQ at 2/3 live with those stacks, pot, and action. Your hand looks like a slow played monster or air trying to desperately win a pot out of position that you should have probably folded preflop heads up.

I think all the hands that beat you that bet the river will call your c/r so if bluffing is a big part of his range, then c/c with the miracle J on the river.

But I don’t like any of the line up to the river either. Don’t open limp. Don’t limp/call heads up out of position with than kind of hand and SPR of about 10 (in position would be different, but oop is not good). C/f the flop. You missed. C/C the flop to set up to bluff with air on later streets when AX is a big part of his range is spewey.
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:43 AM   #7
Rhombo
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

Problem here is that AK is basically the nuts.
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Old 03-13-2018, 02:34 AM   #8
LordRiverRat
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

Grunch: Never ever do something -EV like open limp for the sake of "mixing it up". Just play your game.

As for the hand, no offense but you played every street wrong. Raise pre like mentioned above. On the flop, what are you trying to accomplish by x/c a jack high backdoor flush draw on a flop like that? Had you raised you can cbet and take it down a good % of the time. But limped so you're screwed. On the turn, what are you repping? A 3? 66? A6? No ace is ever gonna fold especially to basically a min raise. On the river, you have showdown value. Now if he has any flush draw (other than the nut flush draw) you're ahead. If it goes check check you win. If it goes check/bet you likely have to fold unless it's a small enough bet. But it's still way better than betting. He's never folding an ace and seeing how you block flush draws, he probably has an ace.
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Old 03-13-2018, 02:35 AM   #9
Steve00007
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

Your turn c/r will get called a lot because it’s so small, and on the river that makes it more tempting to call the shove because of the odds he is getting. And you give villain a chance to improve on the river too.

You don’t represent much either. I think your line looks weird more than anything else, which doesn’t make it look as strong as you think. It might work but you don’t look like you have a strong ace either (in fact it looks less likely from you).

I’m confused as to why you didn’t raise PF. How does mixing it up with a limp help you?
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Old 03-13-2018, 02:54 AM   #10
adummmmm
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

I did write this before reading the comments, don't feel bad for posting and then getting just hammered by posters , you can't grow unless you can realize mistakes and be honest about them, I would advice to always post hands regardless how bad / good you may have thought you played , only way to grow imagine , I don't like the turn raise on that specific card, I would just x/c the turn with the equity you have and hope to hit the river , you don't need to win every hand and your going to be in tough spots when V's call your turn range, especially oop, your repping 3x and 66 and draws here only, so V already kbows this on the turn and still called your x/r , I doubt he is folding the river to your less than PSB with no more streets to come, he has already committed to the hand by calling the turn, fold the flop, flat the turn and x/f the river
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Old 03-13-2018, 03:45 AM   #11
Buster65
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

This is a bad board to float and try to take away later. Why? Because no overcard to the board can come, and there is already a pair OTB. When I float with the intention of taking the hand away later, I am looking for an overcard, one of the lower board cards to pair, or an obvious straight/flush to come in.

It may or may not work here, but it's a longer term loser at low stakes.
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Old 03-13-2018, 04:05 AM   #12
Viral25
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

We are repping a really narrow range, we have no significant blockers, and no equity on like 80% of turns. Id much rather prefer turning A4 or A2 into a bluff in this spot.
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Old 03-13-2018, 08:35 AM   #13
Man of Means
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

Every once in a while, some weirdo at my table will pull off one of these plays, and it works because no one saw it coming. It's hard to analytically critique the hand because it is a "loose wiring" play - we wouldn't prescribe this as part of the general strategy.

My view is that when V puts in about 50% of their stack, getting a fold is pretty difficult, though your play may be so shocking that V forgets all that and makes a big fold.
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:22 AM   #14
gobbledygeek
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

I'm fine with an open limp with speculative hands, especially if we'll likely end up OOP (all good reasons for keeping the pot small, not making it larger, imo).

Are we really going to be profitable seeing a flop OOP to an active type villain (so not ABC easy-to-play-against I'm assuming) HU without initiative? Really? I doubt it. I fold to the raise and move on.

So obviously we're floating the flop to rep the Ace at some point if we think we can get away with it. I'd much rather do this in position that out of position, but whatever.

Do we make anything of the fact this guy just double barreled the turn? I dunno, at this point an A seems a little more likely, no? I guess if he double barrels all the time, fine. Although I think we could also just call trying to hit and if we whiff perhaps simply donk the river as a bluff.

On the river we have a hand that is likely too strong to bluff, so I'd probably just try to showdown.

Overall, I'm just not convinced that preflop is setting ourselves up for profitable spots, but maybe that's because I can't figure out whether this is all massive spew versus slightly profitable.

GcluelessspewingnoobG
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:24 AM   #15
shorn7
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

Agree with others except about the limp pre. That part is fine.
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:49 PM   #16
Kritecia
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by adummmmm View Post
I did write this before reading the comments, don't feel bad for posting and then getting just hammered by posters , you can't grow unless you can realize mistakes and be honest about them, I would advice to always post hands regardless how bad / good you may have thought you played , only way to grow imagine , I don't like the turn raise on that specific card, I would just x/c the turn with the equity you have and hope to hit the river , you don't need to win every hand and your going to be in tough spots when V's call your turn range, especially oop, your repping 3x and 66 and draws here only, so V already kbows this on the turn and still called your x/r , I doubt he is folding the river to your less than PSB with no more streets to come, he has already committed to the hand by calling the turn, fold the flop, flat the turn and x/f the river
Thank you
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:52 PM   #17
Kritecia
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

Result: He snapped me off with A3 haha...

Thank you everyone for the inputs! I like to think that I can take criticism, so no problem On a side note, clearly I played this hand very wrong but I definitely learned something from this hand!
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:54 PM   #18
LordRiverRat
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

lol trying to rep villain's hand. Classic. Hopefully at least you guys had a good laugh about it at the table.
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Old 03-13-2018, 06:44 PM   #19
Koss
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

Another lesson is sometimes you bluff into the top of their range and there is nothing you can do. If you dont get caught every once in a while you arent doing it enough.
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Old 03-13-2018, 08:56 PM   #20
Joey913
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss View Post
Another lesson is sometimes you bluff into the top of their range and there is nothing you can do. If you dont get caught every once in a while you arent doing it enough.
This. If he snaps you off with 99 then you obviously are doing it too much and have no credibility. If I'm going to get called then I want to get called by something like quads or a boat.
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Old 03-14-2018, 12:50 AM   #21
Steve00007
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
I'm fine with an open limp with speculative hands, especially if we'll likely end up OOP (all good reasons for keeping the pot small, not making it larger, imo).
Hero open-limped from the HJ. You don’t think a raise likely leaves us in position at a tight table?

Edit: Maybe you thought hero was in EP or at least worse position than the HJ?
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Old 03-14-2018, 01:38 AM   #22
adam levine
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

Raise pre,you should almost never limp as the first player in,OTT- the click back raise doesn’t make much sense except maybe 66.As played river is a check/fold people hate to fold in this game,fancy bluffs will not work most of the time.GLGL.
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Old 03-14-2018, 01:53 AM   #23
Kritecia
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam levine View Post
Raise pre,you should almost never limp as the first player in,OTT- the click back raise doesn’t make much sense except maybe 66.As played river is a check/fold people hate to fold in this game,fancy bluffs will not work most of the time.GLGL.
Yes sir!
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:45 AM   #24
PFunkaliscious
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

I have made this exact move dozens of times. Sometimes when I have had it. Sometimes when I have not. Sometimes when my table image was rock solid. Sometimes when it was super weak. Sometimes against nits. Sometimes against calling stations.

The cliff notes are, it they have invested half of their stack after they called the first check raise, they are not folding. It is a weird psychosis, but a very large majority of poker players just go into this call down mode that makes the all in bet irrelevant into their decision making. They are simply married to the hand.

And after the hand is over, whatever the outcome, they will mumble, "I knew you had it" or "I knew you didn't have it" But again, whatever their thinking process is, they simply cannot fold the hand.
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Old 03-14-2018, 04:10 AM   #25
jdr0317
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Re: Bluff at 2/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kritecia View Post
Table is a bit tight, not much action. Villain is white male in his mid 20s. He has been somewhat active in this game. Effective stack is 275~

Pre-flop:

Hero: JT limped in HJ. Normally, this is my default raise here, but I had been raising a lot so I decided to mix things up a bit.
Villain: Raised to 12$.
Hero: Called.

Flop: 33A

Hero: Check.
Villain: Cbet 15.
Hero: Called.

Turn: 6
Hero: Check.
Villain: bets 40.
Hero: x/r to 90.
Villain: Called.

River: J
Hero: shove the rest 150~

When I make this turn x/r, my intention was to shove all river except an Ace. I think this guy is good enough to fold most of his Ax. My range probably looks something like 43,53, 63, A3, 66, and flush draws when I take this line. In addition, the x/r turn and shove river line seem pretty strong in this 2/3 some what nitty game to me so that is why I went for it. What do you guys think? Result coming later.
Don't "mix it up" by open limping. I won't be as strong as to say "ever", but...almost never.

Rest of the hand is just a disaster. What are you repping? Unless your preflop standards are terrible, you're basically saying you have A6s, A3s or 66 exactly. 66 may even just fold flop. If you can rep 43 with this line, well, you have strategy problems beyond the scope of this hand.

Edit: sorry for being harsh after re-reading my post. I trend towards brutally honest in my feedback
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