snug meaning?
we don't like betting for value?


I think it's very likely a straight or two pair is going to be raising us on this flop.
If someone raises us I think we have to strongly consider folding, why would they suddenly start bluffing multi-way?
We're also saying we're very strong by betting, so people should be less inclined to start bluffing into us.

Say we check, villain checks behind and then one of the other players bets.
Is that going to make the hand easier to play?

Even if we check, villain can just bet 3x and still get all the money in.
Are we ever check/folding on this flop? I'm certainly not.

I'm not sure at all what the proper response would be to a raise after we bet.
Depends on the player and the sizing a lot.
It's gonna be hard to make a decision then, but it's hard to make a decision on this river now as well, so what do we really solve by checking the flop?

By checking we do give hands like KQ, QJ, QT free equity and we miss a lot of value against them.
There's also a ton of draws that would pay us to see another card.


+1

I don't think there has to be a right decision here.
Solvers use mixed strategies all the time.
Both checking and betting could be perfectly fine here.

Snug means tighter.

The point is that AQ is neither going for 3 streets of value nor playing for stacks. If you bet and you get raised by JTdd is a bit of a disaster, because you will have to fold and sacrifice a ton of equity. So, for me, the goal with a hand like AQ in this spot is to realize my equity.

I would definitely bet all sets and strong draws like AKdd and AJdd; you aren't supposed to be doing a ton of betting multiway & OOP. Now, if you are in position, it's a different story.

One strong reason this might be a bet is because we are holding the Ad. Not sure though.

Is there a UTG+2? Is V second-to-act after you? Your position relative to V has to change your preflop strategy. I'd feel better raising AQo preflop if the V was in the small blind. When you are out of position against an aggressive player who can outplay you on the flop, you have to tighten up pre. Your best strategy here is to request a seat change. If you get the seat directly behind V, then you'll be in position all night against someone from whom you can learn a lot.

How about reflecting on the fact that the posts you write on this forum is so freaking far out to lunch that people sometimes ask themself if you are trolling?

That would be a huge eyeopener for many people.

Not to mention I’m not Karen here and going to report people for an opinion i don’t like. That’s lunacy.

But what is also lunacy is going from “good players disagree on a particular situation” to “clear evidence that we should consider open limp AQo in the HJ”. Like holy crap, reach more

Yeah, the A makes this spot very interesting. That's precisely why I posted it here. Holding the A reduces the number of flush combos that villain could have and weights it more towards calling the river. It's a tough spot because villain could do the exact same thing with a whole bunch of hands including all two pairs, all sets, all straights, all flushes, and the naked K for value. That's why the river K was such a bad card and made this go from easy slam dunk call to tough decision. Still, holding the A is the key difference that makes this a call.

Thank you very much for solving this. This is very insightful and helpful. I had a gut feeling that folding on the river is not too much of a mistake against a generic opponent. So this validates that and also my actions on pervious streets. I mean, this is precisely how I want to play poker overall.

However, folding against this opponent was indeed a mistake. If this was 2/5, it would be a different story. Since it was 1/3, I had to adjust to a table of fish, and then adjust back to playing real poker against this dude. So, there was some mindset issues going on to.

Didn’t get to read allll the way through but I will echo that this is a really bad flop for us to be cbet ting given position texture and multi opponents this hits their range much better and I will add that having the Ad here makes me even less inclined to cbet since we block every AdXd combo they can call with which is not an insignificant % of hands we beat that peel flop.


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I highly recommend people avoid using a heads up solver to understand 4 way poker hands, you're gonna play waaaaay too loose and aggressive. If you want to try something silly like that, you need to assign villain a range 3x weighted towards value hands instead of air. And once you do something like that, you're gonna see us check the flop a lot of the time.

In general, many people in this thread show signs of GTO poisoning; misapplying GTO concepts. OP especially, you seem to be misapplying a number of concepts.
For example:
you shouldn't be opening 88 or 67s pre from the BB with a button straddle, unless you're only doing it ~10% of the time, probably not even that.
Your last sentence shows you're thinking about this wrong; you don't pick one bet size and use it across all flops, you pick 1 (or two or three, depending on how much complexity you're able to hold in your head) bet sizing PER FLOP to use with your range, which accomplishes the same thing without making you bet half pot on a board like 255r where you want to mostly minbet or quarter pot bet.