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big 4bet pre 230bb deep effective; shoving every flop? big 4bet pre 230bb deep effective; shoving every flop?

08-05-2013 , 09:59 PM
1/2$ full ring, saturday night
Hero: 460$, white, mid 20s. My image is neither TAG or LAG. Ive lost some big hands and won some bigger hands. I am into the game for 470$. Early in this session i had two memorable hands against V. For these two hands, V is on my direct left.
History hand 1- I raised from LP, 4 way to flop, bet flop and turn with TPGK and called V's shove on river getting about 6:1. He had TPTK.
History Hand 2- A few hands later i limp in LP with Q10, V raises, 4 to flop. I flop KJ9 straight and bet flop. V and SB call. turn is brick, i bet when checked to, V calls, SB shoves for what was nearly a minraise. I shove for about 150$ all day...V tanks and calls. There was a FD on the flop btw. River bricks and both muck.
V: covers, late 20s, into the game for about 600$. has shown he can tighten up and fold fold fold. but also has shown he will gambooool when he has the itch.
The hand: Hero has moved seats to get position on the two fish at the table. Ive been moved for about 2 hours now.
Hero opens UTG with AA to 15. This is the standard raise at the table; usually going 3-4 ways. As soon as I started going 17-20$ as my open, i literally got zero action.
Folds to V in the cutoff, who makes it 60$. I have NOT seen him 3 bet this big all day...we have been at the same table for about 6 hours. Folds to hero, I 4bet to 170 all day. V tanks for a good 2 minutes and calls.
Are we shoving just about every flop here? If it comes KQJ flop wtf do we do?
I really think this V wouldnt mind getting it in pre with KK.
The flop: 873r (340$)
Here is my thought process...I still dont think V really has KK because i feel he may have shoved pre. so that leaves us with TT/JJ/QQ/AK.
I feel like he will fold all those hand to a shove OTF...maybe call with QQ.
So why not give the feel of being weak and check? then shove all turns?
Is this a bad thought process? If he has JJ/QQ/KK, we are wayyyyy ahead and I think we let him talk himself into calling due to my check on the flop.
Thoughts?
big 4bet pre 230bb deep effective; shoving every flop? Quote
08-05-2013 , 10:13 PM
You've got the right mindset. You are either way ahead (KK/QQ/JJ), or way way ahead (AKs...?). Check and let him hang himself, let him read your 4-bet preflop as AK trying to get him off a pair. There are only about 6 cards in the deck that really hurt you here even if he checks back.
big 4bet pre 230bb deep effective; shoving every flop? Quote
08-05-2013 , 10:36 PM
Bet 120, shove turn for 150 is what I would probably do. 4b was a little big but given he called I don't think he's going to fold an 8 high board
big 4bet pre 230bb deep effective; shoving every flop? Quote
08-05-2013 , 10:45 PM
I like the flop check. SPR is such that getting all the money in by the river should be no problem.
big 4bet pre 230bb deep effective; shoving every flop? Quote
08-05-2013 , 10:48 PM
Would a smaller bet (~$100) induce a shove from villain?
big 4bet pre 230bb deep effective; shoving every flop? Quote
08-05-2013 , 10:51 PM
Bet 1/2 pot or whatever. Whatever you do bet make sure you say "all day" after it.
big 4bet pre 230bb deep effective; shoving every flop? Quote
08-05-2013 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wck117
Bet 120, shove turn for 150 is what I would probably do. 4b was a little big but given he called I don't think he's going to fold an 8 high board
This
big 4bet pre 230bb deep effective; shoving every flop? Quote
08-05-2013 , 11:04 PM
So you wanna to go fast preflop?

Just to go hit the brakes on the flop so V will fly right by?

My question is why you didn't just flat pf - especially when you say that V hasn't 3bet that amount once, ever- in six hours of play

To me- you shoulda ran this play preflop. Heda paid you off.
big 4bet pre 230bb deep effective; shoving every flop? Quote
08-05-2013 , 11:38 PM
If we had AK we are shipping this flop?
big 4bet pre 230bb deep effective; shoving every flop? Quote
08-06-2013 , 11:24 PM
Not shipping AK on the flop nor am I 4betting OOP this big, if 4betting at all
big 4bet pre 230bb deep effective; shoving every flop? Quote
08-07-2013 , 12:08 AM
He HAS to be putting you on ACES, HAS to. All betting small does is get him to maybe call again for his set.

I would check and let him bet (prob shove) If he checks back I bet half the pot on any turn and hope he tries to get it off of you.

The pre flop action screams KK or QQ So you have to do whatever to get this guy to shove on you, bc your hand is basically face up.
big 4bet pre 230bb deep effective; shoving every flop? Quote

      
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