Hero, LP,has 600+ and has everyone covered, mid 20s black guy with one earbud in. Has winning image, has only showed wins, no bluffs yet

V1, MP, has 200 effective and is a nitty TAG mid 20s white guy in a ball cap, Hero has played with him before. In this session, V1 called a PF raise with KK, and then called 3 streets (all in on the river) against an older guy. V1 won the pot.

V2, MP+1, has 200 effective and just sat down a round or so ago, mid 30s black guy, large beard, transferred over with over the max buy-in.

Hero had 77 in V2's first hand, flopped a set on a monotone board. V2 bet 16 into 12, H called, brick turn, V2 bet 35, H called, River 7, V2 checked, Hero bet 75, V2 folded. V2 claims he had two pair. Hero thinks V2 is probably a loose passive fish



Ok, EP raises to 7 (standard raise at this table was about 15 to get a caller or two, so 7 gets a bunch more)

V1, V2, Hero, and two others call. Hero has KQs

Pot is 40
FLOP : Q J 8 (Rainbow)

Checks to V1, who bets 15, V2 calls. Hero raises to 50. Folds around to V1, who calls, and V2, who calls.

Here, I figured that a nitty tag betting 15 into 40 was a bit suspect. That board texture gives a lot of hands combo draws, so I thought it was possible that his bet was a blocking bet. After the call, I was pretty sure one or two others would call after me were I to call, so I decided to raise. I wanted to take the pot down even though I had TPGK.


Does this make sense as a thought process? What would you do differently?

I'll post the results after we get some analysis going.

I think this logic is fine.

Players aren't savvy enough to make a super small cbet to induce a bluff raise at this level and will usually signify some kind of draw looking to "name their own price."

As a caveat im not crazy about doing this in multiway pots.

When they both call im really going to evaluate turns before I barrel the turn.

I also might 3b this weakish open pf.

I'm thinking small hand small pot in this spot. Really there are not a lot of big draws just lots of pairs and gut shot draws. I'm ok Flatting and seeing what happens on the turn. Also if we have a backdoor flush draw some times we pick up lots of equity and we can start building the pot.

After thought: once we flat pre and expect to go multi way I actually really don't like the raise at all. We are really hoping to make a more nutted hand and not just one pair with a good kicker. We need to be managing this multi way pot, not bloating it with 1 pair. If we 3 bet isolate pre I think it changes everything, but once we flat for 3.5 bb we really don't want to over invest with such a marginal holding.

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Raise for value. Your sizing is off though. Pot is 40+45 (3 calls) and you only raised 35?

Especially with two Vs who are interested, I'm bumping this to 75, expecting 1 caller. We're looking for calls from worse Qs, and combo draws like J9.

You even said the 15 was a weak cbet. If we raise 35 on top, we're going to get 2 callers for sure. We don't want this hand to be 3-way anymore, otherwise we're going to have to deal with a ton of bad turn cards (any J, T, 9, 8). At least one person is drawing, charge them appropriately.

I like it. I might have gone $60, but not that big of a deal. I can't imagine they'd just call with AQ or two pair, but maybe. I guess they could be trapping with 9T. Re-evaluate turn and try to get a read depending on what happens.

My problem with trying to keep the pot small is that I can't do this with 2 or 3 other people in the hand. If I call, the pot will be 85, and that's without the other 3 people acting yet.

I usually take the small hand small pot philosophy, but I also try to play heads up or three handed.


Also, what would 3betting accomplish? I assume I'll either take the limps or end up playing a bloated pot 2 or 3 ways with a good, but not great hand. Obviously this specific flop is great, but I don't like the idea of 3betting because I don't know what they're 3bet calling range is. There's usually like 3 3bets in a 5 hour session in my game. I'm just not very comfortable playing a big pot like that.

I really hate the call pf. The EP player is polarized to either a monster or some garbage hand. You have a RIO type hand. You want to narrow the field. Unless you hit 2 pair, you are going to be in a position of praying that they'll fold to your TP bet on the flop.

On the flop, you are my favorite player to be up against. Your range is TP If I can beat TP, I'll continue. If not, I'll fold. If you don't continue betting, you'll call my bets. TBH, once you've raised, I don't have much of any experience because I wouldn't have gotten here. I guess I c/f on the turn because I'm only giving 4 outs to a gut shut and the villains aren't going to bet out with worse than you have.

I don't know why you didn't 3! preflop. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you are playing this passively by just calling, you need better than TPGK to be raising this pot with so many players in the hand.

If you 3! pre, you thin the field and can then raise the flop as you did or just call. But I don't like the way this was played. You are severely overrepping your hand.

I would 3 bet pre if I smelled it was a weak raise. I see players bet small like that to stop larger bets from behind with suited connectors, pocket pairs, some suited broadway cards, etc. Very villain dependent.

Flop raise I don't really like.

What draws are really out there? 9 10 already has the nuts. Would gutters call a raise? Let's say he has a queen. What worse queen could call?

You describe your villains as nitty. Would they call Q9 or Q10 as a pair with a gutter ball? If not, what's the point of raising? AQ has you beat, so does QJ, and all weaker queens would fold to your raise. You're turning a hand with showdown value into a bluff.

As played, call the bet and evaluate the turn. You're most likely beat here with so many in the pot.

id lean towards 3betting preflop more times than not.

if I flatted id probably just flat flop and pot control I think raising is ok but you need to be sure villain is going to have enough worse hands that would call. if that seems to thin id go with the flat.

I don't think 3 betting pre is necessary, we just have to understand what sort of boards we want to start building a pot. When we are only ahead of pair and gut shots and almost no TP hands. Calling 15 is fine because it allows worse hands to come along. When we raise, especially so small we aren't getting folds and we are bloating the pot. I think flatting and reevaluating is totally fine, it also allows us to start defining people's hands.
When the turn comes we know what cards are good for us and what ones are bad. Not to mention we have really don't improve all that often. We keep our investment small and just play post flop. Anytime we are raising with TP hoping people fold means we are only getting calls when beat and folds when we are ahead. That's like raising to "see where we are at". Which isn't for value and isn't as a bluff, meaning it's bad.

+1

3b to $30-35 pre. Fold to 4b.

As played, I'll call it down to see how cheaply I can see a river. Because ima station.

But to be honest, you're fracked, since the K is a dirty out, and you need to go runner runnr and most likely your runner outs are dirty too.

So, otf, fold.

I think pre is ok but yea don't like the raise on the flop, I think it's a standard call and re eval on turn.