A very typical strategy of mine, and I imagine its the same for most, is to set mine. Do you ever fold thinking theres an overset? This is assuming 1/2 no limit with effective stacks of max 400. I ask because I haven't been over set yet (only 76 hours of playing) other than an all in pre flop situation where I lost to AA when I had KK and the flop was AK blah. Only once did I even think about folding a flopped set thinking there was an over set. At this point I figure you chalk it up as a cooler and move on if it happens.

Pretty much. If the action and the board make a higher set the only real possibility, maybe one can fold a set correctly when very deep, but that's as rare as a Pegasus-riding viking with an assault rifle. If you're not getting in stacks with a set bad every once in a while, you aren't getting enough value on your sets, imo.

My bud calls that a classic reddit response if hes ever seen one lol. Totally agree though with your thought. I plan to get oversetted sometime soon and forget about it.

In a prior life, when I was playing 1200+ hours a year I had the underset once every month or two.

Not fun.

When I stopped playing 22, 33, 44 and 55 it happened about once a year.

Saved a lot of limping $ as well, we miss most of the time anyhow.

YMMV.

I've read about removing 22, 33, 44, 55 from ones hand when there are multiple limpers ahead... But only in respect to an opening hand. I cant say ive had the op to play 22 yet tho. On another note... I did fold KK to a 22 once when the board flopped an A 9 5, he shoved after a 10x preflop raise on my part.. I was made fun of a bit for that one

Flopped sets with 55 has been super profitable for me so far.

So you showed the Kings after folding? BAD

Never fold set of 555. Always 222.... LOL


This thread is ridiculous... Set over set happens. The problem is that you can almost never narrow down a Villain's range to 1 or 2 exact hands.

If Villain is a super nit that you have played with 5000 hours and you know that he never stacks off with TPTK, Top 2 and the flop is
K72 rainbow.

You have 22....

In that exact situation under those exact circumstances, it may be correct to fold. You so rarely will have this situation that you should never even consider it.

Thanks man, just bouncing ideas. New to the playing poker with theory behind my moves. So all input is appreciated.

It's super rare to fold a set and be right vs someone's range. Stop.

Poker is a fluid, dynamic game. Setting aside even the elite world class players, great players operate on functional probability, there are times when even when you're very sure a hand is no good you have to call anyway because uncertainty , meta game and pot odds say that a fold is not optimal.

An example I'll give from a recent session that I may have played differently in the past was I had 55. I ISOed a limper, got a call and then faced a small 3 bet which netted me 15 to one on a pretty big stack, there ended up being three players on the flop, and I had the effective button. The flop was 567sss which might be only second worst in this spot in terms of good/bad to AK5sss. The first player was short and jammed, the second player was deeper and jammed over the top, for around 150Bb post. I pretty much snap called. The board ran out dry and I scooped close to 400bb.

The moral is a weaker player goes, "wow, I don't think I could've made that call" all I thought was, if I'm over set than I guess I have one out, and if they have a 5 card hand I guess I'm drawing. They got lucky, or I'm ahead. Either way, I didn't call the preflop bet to ever consider folding a set if I flopped one. I'm going to take this spot and assume it's plus Ev overall even if sometimes I look or feel like a dick.
Period, it's good poker.

Similar situation w KK pre when you get 4 bet. Be sure, in the absence some mega tell that either you chip up or go broke in exactly what the situation is, a cooler.

Reddit should stick to Facebook 2 days later and not populate 2+2 sir. Tip my fedora to troll Greda whatshername from you tube via reddit. That was kinda a reddit response above though, wp. *tips fedora again aggressively*

Play for awhile and you will see it. Craziest hand I ever saw in person.

Board 678 .. 4 way all in OTF ... 66 v 77 v 88 v 9T ... bink!! 6 on the River.

Situations are very rare to fold a set without VERY good reason ... wet board or wet opponent!! GL

I play against a lot of regs, so I have the data on some players to recognize that their range is limited to a set. Against a random player, you usually can't do that.

This is incredibly dumb as it discounts the number of times those small pairs could have actually won you a big pot. Stop focusing on individual pots won/lost and look at EV of situations in the long term.

Well "large" is a qualitative term here, not sure what you mean. But I dont think Ill ever win large pots with a 5-5 or less unless i hit a set when it comes to 1/2 live. For that matter... Im not winning a big pot with 99 or less unless theres a huge fish taking paired 8s to the river or a guy has a draw that totally misses. Nearly every 1/2 table ive ever sat is multiway every time. Every time!! Unless a three bet thins the herd. So when i posted this, Im assuming a 3-4 way pot during which you hit a set on the flop. Heads up, a set is obviously something you dont fold to a suspected over set.

Are people not having the same experience as me? 1/2 live players just want to see a flop, and they dont care really what they have to pay. 3-4 way is standard after a preflop raise.

Your intuition on this is pretty spot on. Low-mid pairs at 1/2 are valuable pretty much only for setmining. However...

The solution to the possibility of being oversetted is not simply "fold the lowest pairs." Rather, the possibility of being oversetted should factor into your implied odds, along with stack sizes, position, # of players, and opponent ranges & tendencies. Of course we'd rather have 77 than 22, but there are obv spots where we should setmine with 22 and spots where we should fold 77.

So my hours are limited (78) so ive only had 2-2 while in EP and at crazy tables. In thats situation, usually I fold or limp (to minimize chance of 3bet). No point in raising and folding to a 3bet later. But one day soon ill hit a set of twos and learn their value
Im just glad someone finally agrees with me that mid to low pairs are strictly set mining hands. (90% of the time anyway). 1/2 live is too crazy for them to be any more valuable.

Sungar, you are one of the more eloquent and experienced posters here.

I WISH i could believe you about "KK pre when you get 4 bet."

In the last two years, playing as though I agreed with you, I have been zero for fifteen with KK against a 4-bet. Literally. Live AND in small tournaments. These might be independent trials BUT these situations are not random, we are never facing ATC when facing a 4-bet.

Despite that, I agree with you about set over set ... once we make it we ought to be playing it.

I don't know about that. I've seen people stack off with TPTK way more often than a random rec player 4 bets with anything less than AA.

I once folded bottom set on the flop in a multiway pot after I bet, someone raised and another player reraised. The guy who reraised won the hand with top pair. That was the worst fold I ever made in my life.

Oh, and the hand I threw away was pocket deuces.

Wow... Thats the place to play man!! Go back and make some money. Or tell me where it is.
Thats rough tho

Looks like the games I play. I once folded top set on a monotone board vs crazy action and it was a bad fold vs those guys range.

And last time I was set over set 22 vs 99, I hit quads OTR... Hiyyaaaaaa. Rungood.