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bad sizing or bad luck? bad sizing or bad luck?

03-19-2016 , 12:09 PM
$2/5 $100-300
9 handed
tight table
most open raises are for 20 and happen in late position (if at all)

effective stacks are 300

Hero gets AA twice in UTG

both times hero opens for 25, folds around

given the typical opening was 20 (I only saw 25 called once) and it is a tight table, should I have adjusted opening down to 20 or just chalk it up to bad luck that no one called 25?

btw - my image (not that a single person at the table would have noticed) would have been nitty tight because I was card dead other than the AA hands.
bad sizing or bad luck? Quote
03-19-2016 , 12:16 PM
$20 seems fine if that is what everyone else is raising to. We're effectively playing SS poker, so our AA is going to be so well ahead against most players' ranges and GII ranges even on the flop.
bad sizing or bad luck? Quote
03-19-2016 , 02:30 PM
It's probably bad luck that no one had anything, but it could also be the fact that you're at a tight table. Try $25 with AK UTG and see what happens. Since ES is 60 BB, raising $20 with AA is fine.
bad sizing or bad luck? Quote
03-19-2016 , 02:36 PM
Bad luck. They are usually calling $25 if they are calling $20. Nobody had anything. Just bet $20 from now on, though, to keep the norm. Start opening lighter from late position, too, especially with your image.
bad sizing or bad luck? Quote
03-19-2016 , 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Curious
most open raises are for 20 and happen in late position (if at all)

both times hero opens for 25, folds around

given the typical opening was 20 (I only saw 25 called once) and it is a tight table, should I have adjusted opening down to 20 or just chalk it up to bad luck that no one called 25?
You answered your own question.

Either make it 20, or go for the old l/rr.
bad sizing or bad luck? Quote
03-19-2016 , 09:00 PM
I disagree with the lady.

A lot of players are price sensitive.

Much better to slightly undersized your raises with premium hands and lose a little bit of value vs oversize and miss out on huge preflop and postflop value.
bad sizing or bad luck? Quote
03-19-2016 , 09:07 PM
kookie, you still mean $20, right? You are not recommending undersizing, as in $15 - $18, especially from UTG.
bad sizing or bad luck? Quote
03-19-2016 , 09:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
kookie, you still mean $20, right? You are not recommending undersizing, as in $15 - $18, especially from UTG.
I'd go $20 or whatever is a normal open.

Digressing here, but when we have a premium hand I think all this stuff about not giving implied odds for set farming and trying to thin the herd, is all a bunch of weak/tight baloney (No offense GG), at least in the $1/2-$5/10 games I'm playing in.
bad sizing or bad luck? Quote
03-20-2016 , 01:50 AM
My goodness, start raising to 25 anytime you are the first raiser. And I mean with anything, if the dealer skips you by accident, or only deals you one card, raise it up!
bad sizing or bad luck? Quote
03-20-2016 , 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Curious
most open raises are for 20 and happen in late position (if at all)

effective stacks are 300

Hero gets AA twice in UTG

both times hero opens for 25, folds around

given the typical opening was 20 (I only saw 25 called once)
Here is where we need more information.
If the raises to $25 are getting folds (all but one time) and we've seen 30 $25 raises, then we are idiots for raising to $25 here. If we have seen it go to $25 twice, and one was a call and one was a fold then lol sample size.

But generally people either care about the absolute $ amount or they don't.
If they do care, then weshould exploit that by raising to $25 with a huge ranege of hands in LP and just taking money all day and night from them. With a back up plan to make a pair or something stupid like that if we actually get called.

if they don't care about the aboslute size of the raise (lol at my 1/2 table last night where people were cold calling 3bets with 66 OOP for 1/8th their stack then we abuse the hell out of them with premium hands IP (and less so OOP) for large raises and value rape them post flop.

You need to adjust adjust adjust.
So next time you are sitting in this game and you are dealt a napkin and an Uno card, raise to $25 IP (maybe HJ or later) and profit.

And raise every button with 100% of your range. Make it smaller when you want them to call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster65
My goodness, start raising to 25 anytime you are the first raiser. And I mean with anything, if the dealer skips you by accident, or only deals you one card, raise it up!
Pretty much this.
bad sizing or bad luck? Quote
03-20-2016 , 10:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kookiemonster
I'd go $20 or whatever is a normal open.

Digressing here, but when we have a premium hand I think all this stuff about not giving implied odds for set farming and trying to thin the herd, is all a bunch of weak/tight baloney (No offense GG), at least in the $1/2-$5/10 games I'm playing in.
No one 'wants' to give their opponents implied odds. So if we have the choice (in some mythical not possible world where everything else is equal) between not giving them good IO and giving them good IO, we would obviously default to not giving it to them.

However, that doesn't mean that we need to not try and play for stacks when a situation presents it self.

I agree with you that we should not be weak/tight, that we should not open to $21 in an unlimped 1/2 game with KK+ specifically then stack off on all run outs for $450+ (lol 1/2 games) becuase ZOMG Kings or Aces.

But failing to recognize that we *are* giving people implied odds is just as bad a avoiding any sitution in which we might.



Give them a range and play accordingly.
If their range is all pocket pairs and they are putting money in. Stop.
If their range is all pocket pairs, all top pair, all over pairs and you have Aces cram it down their fscking throat.
bad sizing or bad luck? Quote
03-20-2016 , 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch
Here is where we need more information.
If the raises to $25 are getting folds (all but one time) and we've seen 30 $25 raises, then we are idiots for raising to $25 here. If we have seen it go to $25 twice, and one was a call and one was a fold then lol sample size.

But generally people either care about the absolute $ amount or they don't.
If they do care, then weshould exploit that by raising to $25 with a huge ranege of hands in LP and just taking money all day and night from them. With a back up plan to make a pair or something stupid like that if we actually get called.

if they don't care about the aboslute size of the raise (lol at my 1/2 table last night where people were cold calling 3bets with 66 OOP for 1/8th their stack then we abuse the hell out of them with premium hands IP (and less so OOP) for large raises and value rape them post flop.

You need to adjust adjust adjust.
So next time you are sitting in this game and you are dealt a napkin and an Uno card, raise to $25 IP (maybe HJ or later) and profit.

And raise every button with 100% of your range. Make it smaller when you want them to call.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch
No one 'wants' to give their opponents implied odds. So if we have the choice (in some mythical not possible world where everything else is equal) between not giving them good IO and giving them good IO, we would obviously default to not giving it to them.

However, that doesn't mean that we need to not try and play for stacks when a situation presents it self.

I agree with you that we should not be weak/tight, that we should not open to $21 in an unlimped 1/2 game with KK+ specifically then stack off on all run outs for $450+ (lol 1/2 games) becuase ZOMG Kings or Aces.

But failing to recognize that we *are* giving people implied odds is just as bad a avoiding any sitution in which we might.



Give them a range and play accordingly.
If their range is all pocket pairs and they are putting money in. Stop.
If their range is all pocket pairs, all top pair, all over pairs and you have Aces cram it down their fscking throat.
bad sizing or bad luck? Quote

      
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