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bad call for sake of future image bad call for sake of future image

12-17-2015 , 01:37 PM
i've been playing in a poker club for about 6 months, once or twice a month. i'm starting to recognize some players and their play, so it is natural to think that they are starting to recognize me. i'm in my early 40s, usually wear a hoodie to play, mostly because the room is usually on the cool side. i'm not flashy, and try not to openly discuss advance strategy with the table. i try to give the impression that i'm not a very sophisticated player. to all the 20-something players here, is that the impression you would get about a player like myself if you didn't have any other information to go on?

on to the hand...

player on my left (Villian) is a player i have seen at the club quite a bit. he usually has around $800 in front of him. The game is $1 - $2 NL. I've been winning this session and have about $500. it's about 1:30a and the game has been going on for about 6hr, but i've been playing at the table for about 2hr.

button straddled for $5 from the #1 seat. I didn't see the straddle, so when it got to me, i made it $8 to go. Standard opening raises have been between $7 - $11. As a side-note, had I seen the straddle, i would have made it $16, but i dont' think that would have changed the hand.

villain calls from the cutoff.

board is 6 7 9

i hate my hand. these middle connected cards are exactly the range i put the villain on. i bet just under the pot, so something like $20. i dont' have the memory that other players on here do...

villain calls

turn is 10

this is another awful card for me, and i'm pretty sure i just check. i think the villain either checked or bet like, $20 and I called, but i don't quite remember.

river is 9

not the worst card for me, but i'm pretty sure i'm beat. i'm thinking that if the villain had a 2pr hand, i can beat him now, but i'm pretty sure he has an 8 in his hand. after a minute or so f thinking how to proceed, I decide to bet out $60, and if i get raised, i'll fold, basically making a "blocking bet". looking back, I know i had bet just under the pot with my $60 river bet, so there was definitely some action on the turn...sorry i don't quite remember it exactly...

Villain raises to $170 after a long pause. In fact, he said "I'm not folding", and the dealer thought he said "i'm folding" and began to push the pot to me, where the villain said "I'm NOT folding". I didn't move at all to try not to give anything away.

so what goes through my mind here is, I'm beat and I know it. I can only beat a 2 pair hand or the bottom end of an open-ended straight draw, 4-5. what crosses my mind is that my blocking bet was sort of obvious. I'm just about ready to fold, when it also crosses my mind that i have never, ever, made a big call on the river. i think that the players are more likely to remember me calling then they are to also know that i was already playing from ahead, and the rest of the hand details. they will just remember i called. maybe in future hands, the players will be less likely to run a big river bluff at me, thinking me to still be a pretty "fishy" type player to be value bet at and not bluffed at...

so i called. i had A A

villain had 9 8

i know that the right play would have been to fold. everything screamed at me FOLD, and i only called out of hopes of earning future returns. my take away was i preserved an image of someone who could make a thin call on the river.

is that even a good image to have???
bad call for sake of future image Quote
12-17-2015 , 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockville9
i've been playing in a poker club for about 6 months, once or twice a month. i'm starting to recognize some players and their play, so it is natural to think that they are starting to recognize me.
MUBS. Twice a month visit, unless you're a super spewy drunk guy who dumps 5+ BI every time you go, nobody recognizes you, nobody cares.

Two types of players that will garner attention:

-Super whales
-Strong players

At such low frequency of visits, you are not a threat to anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockville9
i'm in my early 40s, usually wear a hoodie to play, mostly because the room is usually on the cool side. i'm not flashy, and try not to openly discuss advance strategy with the table.
Shouldn't have any reason to discuss strategy at all. Fun table is one where people are NOT talking about poker. There is no positive in discussing poker at a table.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockville9
i try to give the impression that i'm not a very sophisticated player.
Trust me, you don't need to try to accomplish that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockville9
to all the 20-something players here, is that the impression you would get about a player like myself if you didn't have any other information to go on?
I assume everyone is a donkey until proven otherwise, and it happens very rarely, very very rarely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockville9
on to the hand...
Makes more sense to put your hand in the opening, not in the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockville9
player on my left (Villian) is a player i have seen at the club quite a bit. he usually has around $800 in front of him. The game is $1 - $2 NL. I've been winning this session and have about $500. it's about 1:30a and the game has been going on for about 6hr, but i've been playing at the table for about 2hr.

button straddled for $5 from the #1 seat. I didn't see the straddle, so when it got to me, i made it $8 to go. Standard opening raises have been between $7 - $11. As a side-note, had I seen the straddle, i would have made it $16, but i dont' think that would have changed the hand.

villain calls from the cutoff.

board is 6 7 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockville9
i hate my hand. these middle connected cards are exactly the range i put the villain on. i bet just under the pot, so something like $20. i dont' have the memory that other players on here do...

villain calls
No reason to hate your hand. Just because you have AA, doesn't mean you're entitled to win the pot.

Betting is standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockville9
turn is 10

this is another awful card for me, and i'm pretty sure i just check. i think the villain either checked or bet like, $20 and I called, but i don't quite remember.
What hands do you think are in V's range at this point?

What's your plan on river after you call?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockville9
river is 9

not the worst card for me, but i'm pretty sure i'm beat.
Actually it is a pretty bad card for you, because now you can't beat TP either, and if V has FH, cost for you to bluff catch is going up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockville9
i'm thinking that if the villain had a 2pr hand, i can beat him now, but i'm pretty sure he has an 8 in his hand.
Spend more time to practice hand read by assigning ranges, not just randomly assigning hands to V.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockville9
after a minute or so f thinking how to proceed, I decide to bet out $60, and if i get raised, i'll fold, basically making a "blocking bet".
If you have done your homework, you would see that there are very few hands left in V's range that you can beat on river, and those you cannot beat are never folding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockville9
looking back, I know i had bet just under the pot with my $60 river bet, so there was definitely some action on the turn...sorry i don't quite remember it exactly...
HH is only as helpful as the information provided.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockville9
Villain raises to $170 after a long pause. In fact, he said "I'm not folding", and the dealer thought he said "i'm folding" and began to push the pot to me, where the villain said "I'm NOT folding". I didn't move at all to try not to give anything away.

so what goes through my mind here is, I'm beat and I know it. I can only beat a 2 pair hand or the bottom end of an open-ended straight draw, 4-5. what crosses my mind is that my blocking bet was sort of obvious. I'm just about ready to fold, when it also crosses my mind that i have never, ever, made a big call on the river. i think that the players are more likely to remember me calling then they are to also know that i was already playing from ahead, and the rest of the hand details. they will just remember i called. maybe in future hands, the players will be less likely to run a big river bluff at me, thinking me to still be a pretty "fishy" type player to be value bet at and not bluffed at...
Nobody remembers, nobody cares.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockville9
so i called. i had A A

villain had 9 8

i know that the right play would have been to fold. everything screamed at me FOLD, and i only called out of hopes of earning future returns. my take away was i preserved an image of someone who could make a thin call on the river.

is that even a good image to have???
Nobody remembers, nobody cares.

Thing is if you show AA, it still won't help to register this hand in anybody's head, because everyone in the room probably thinks of it as a standard play, and nobody registers standard plays in his/her head.
bad call for sake of future image Quote
12-17-2015 , 03:42 PM
You shouldn't hate your hand on the flop. You're almost always ahead

A blocking bet is meant to set price for showdown to minimize losses against stronger hands and get thin value against weaker hands.

Here on the river you get no value because a worse hand is never calling. You'll just get called or raised by hands that beat you.

Also, a pot sized blocking bet doesn't really make sense, because now you're not even setting a good price for yourself. You're just bluffing and a straight won't fold, probably not even 9x. If the turn had a $20 bet go in the pot is about $100 though, not $60. Still too much to pay. A blocking bet would be something like $25, but don't make that play with this hand here. Check and fold to a bet because you're rarely good after top pair on the flop made trips and the open ended straight draw came in.

Don't call big bets for information or image. A crusher at this stake might make $20-$25/h and you're paying $110 for metagame reasons when you're almost never good.

I agree that being "unbluffable" or a "calling station" is a nice image to have because opponents become fairly straightforward to play against if they're never bluffing. Unfortunately hardly anybody pays attention so you paid $110 for essentially nothing.
bad call for sake of future image Quote
12-17-2015 , 04:28 PM
I doubt you called for future reasons, you more likely called out of frustration/tilt. And you need to recognize when it happens so you can work on fixing it.
bad call for sake of future image Quote

      
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