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Old 02-18-2019, 09:01 PM   #1
tmo1120
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Backing up into a Boat , Line Check 1/2 NL

Hero: 300

V1: Guy in his late 50's early 60's, somewhat loose post, not very nitty compared to most OG's, will overvalue his hands sometimes, (saw him stick in a good bit calling an AI with QTos pf) (500)

V2: OG seems tight passive, saw him make some moves later on in session but at this point hasn't gotten out of line. (200)

V2 straddles on the button ( I know tight passive shouldn't be straddling)


I have 34s in the BB, I complete for 3 more thinking I will see a board a good amount of the time, if I thought the table was more aggro I would just fold


V1 limps in MP, think there was one more limper..not relevant.. But x's his option


F: 556 (20); I x, MP bets 10 , But calls, I call


T: 3os (50); I x, MP bets 15, But calls, I call


R:3 (95); I x, MP x's , But bets 35... Hero?


Pot odds are great so seems like a stnd call, however I don't know if this guy is ever turning busted draws into a bluff


given that I could be chopping sometimes, and pot odds > 3 to 1; I flick in call


Do you guys ever fold in this spot when an OG bets the R on a double paired board?


advice on any of the streets is appreciated, thanks
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:30 PM   #2
MikeStarr
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Re: Backing up into a Boat , Line Check 1/2 NL

Best advice is dont chase straight draws on paired boards....and fold preflop. Would you limp this hand UTG? Because playing this from the BB when the button straddled is worse.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:43 PM   #3
tmo1120
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Re: Backing up into a Boat , Line Check 1/2 NL

I would not Limp this UTG, Yes my fundamentals are questionable if I fold UTG but complete here, the $2 discount doesn't mean anything

the table was so passive that I thought I could justify it

this hand has high RIO as well, more reason to pitch it in, maybe I was feeling good bc I won a nice pot my first hand so I was like oh SC's ? 3 more? passive table? **** it

this a pitfall I should probably avoid , need to be more disciplined
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:01 PM   #4
QuadJ
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Re: Backing up into a Boat , Line Check 1/2 NL

If you were going to fold here preflop was the time to do it. And folding preflop is the right play. After that the price on the flop and turn are so cheap you have to chase unless convinced the betting pattern means somebody has you beat already.

On the river it's more of a prove it situation. I expect this sort of call to be roughly break even without a better read. Without a decent read there is just too much chance villain is playing something else badly.
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Old 02-19-2019, 01:02 AM   #5
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Re: Backing up into a Boat , Line Check 1/2 NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ View Post
Without a decent read there is just too much chance villain is playing something else badly.
you mean like 5X? like he would have raised 5X on the flop or turn ? bc that's what I was thinking
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Old 02-19-2019, 02:25 AM   #6
browni3141
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Re: Backing up into a Boat , Line Check 1/2 NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmo1120 View Post
I would not Limp this UTG, Yes my fundamentals are questionable if I fold UTG but complete here, the $2 discount doesn't mean anything

the table was so passive that I thought I could justify it

this hand has high RIO as well, more reason to pitch it in, maybe I was feeling good bc I won a nice pot my first hand so I was like oh SC's ? 3 more? passive table? **** it

this a pitfall I should probably avoid , need to be more disciplined
Of course the $2 discount matters and this is certainly less bad than limping for $5 UTG. You can play more hands from the BB than UTG in a straddled pot, but that doesn't include 43s. I think there's a pretty good argument for limping a hand like JTs, which may normally be a fold UTG for a lot of players (if you don't fold JTs UTG, pretend I said J9s)

I'm not folding at any point post for these sizings.
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:45 AM   #7
MikeStarr
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Re: Backing up into a Boat , Line Check 1/2 NL

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Originally Posted by browni3141 View Post
Of course the $2 discount matters and this is certainly less bad than limping for $5 UTG. You can play more hands from the BB than UTG in a straddled pot, but that doesn't include 43s. I think there's a pretty good argument for limping a hand like JTs, which may normally be a fold UTG for a lot of players (if you don't fold JTs UTG, pretend I said J9s)

I'm not folding at any point post for these sizings.
Putting in the extra $3 from the BB in a pot that is straddled to $5 is less bad than limping UTG for $5 in a straddled pot but its still bad and its also worse than limping UTG for $2 in an unstraddled pot which just about no good player would do. Hence, not folding from the BB in this spot is bad.
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:42 PM   #8
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Re: Backing up into a Boat , Line Check 1/2 NL

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Putting in the extra $3 from the BB in a pot that is straddled to $5 is less bad than limping UTG for $5 in a straddled pot but its still bad and its also worse than limping UTG for $2 in an unstraddled pot which just about no good player would do. Hence, not folding from the BB in this spot is bad.
Comparing completing for $3 to limping for $2 is not really useful in terms of thinking about what hands we should play, although in terms of EV you might right that completing 43s is worse. It's very difficult to say though and it doesn't really matter.

Many good players don't have open-limping ranges from any position, but even the ones that don't probably limp some hands from the BB in a straddled pot. I am not going as weak as 54s, but I'd probably limp something like T9s/A5s and I think that's +EV at many tables where it's -EV to open those hands.
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Old 02-19-2019, 05:20 PM   #9
MikeStarr
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Re: Backing up into a Boat , Line Check 1/2 NL

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Originally Posted by browni3141 View Post
Comparing completing for $3 to limping for $2 is not really useful in terms of thinking about what hands we should play, although in terms of EV you might right that completing 43s is worse. It's very difficult to say though and it doesn't really matter.

Many good players don't have open-limping ranges from any position, but even the ones that don't probably limp some hands from the BB in a straddled pot. I am not going as weak as 54s, but I'd probably limp something like T9s/A5s and I think that's +EV at many tables where it's -EV to open those hands.
I dont disagree with that. My main point is that playing these low SCs from EP is mostly terrible. Its even more terrible in a straddle pot (where there tend to be more frequent raises) and you are even farther OOP when youre in the BB than you would be UTG.
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