ATs in the BB facing a LP raise and call - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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ATs in the BB facing a LP raise and call

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08-22-2013 , 04:47 PM

iraisetoomuch

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 37,475

Hero: ~30 guy, wearing headphones and shuffling chips
I'm down to $103 from my $200 buy in, through some marginal situations but nothing spectacularly important.

V1: Opens somewhat wide pre, but decent player post flop. I expect him to open 66+, A6s+, A9o+, K9s+, KJo, & QJ.

V2: Will call somewhat wide. Hard to range him, but I'd say 22-TT, A3-AQ, K6s-KQs, KT-KQo, Q9-QJ, and 56-JTs.

Pre:
Folds around to V1 in the CO who opens for $12.
V2 calls on the BTN
SB folds
Hero has ATs and does what?

Can I just ship it here?
Or can I call and see a flop?
I feel lost in these types of spots with these stack sizes.

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08-22-2013 , 05:36 PM

Mr_Doomed

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,629

If you feel you have fold equity absolutely you can jam. A 10 suited is rarely drawing to horribly except against AA. 27 dollars in the pot with another 90 bucks on top seems reasonable and if his range really is that wide u should get a good amount of folds. the one problem is when u get called you are never ahead so it really comes down to if your opponent is willing to fold.

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08-22-2013 , 05:39 PM

Mr_Doomed

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,629

Ps this is between a fold or an all in I think. Calling in sb in 3 way pot with A 10 out of position is never a good idea because when u do flop a pair it's hard to know where your at.

Last edited by Mr_Doomed; 08-22-2013 at 05:46 PM.

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08-22-2013 , 05:50 PM

$FishWreck$

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 477

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Doomed

Calling in sb in 3 way pot with A 10 out of position is never a good idea because when u do flop a pair it's hard to know where your at.

Not an issue here. Hero is so short stacked that getting it in with top pair is a no-brainer even if kicker is medicore.

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08-22-2013 , 06:05 PM

$FishWreck$

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 477

Shove is wrong. You are value owning yourself and you aren't quite short enough for stack sizes not to be awkward for this. Hero won't have much FE vs. the top of loose villains' ranges.

A10s is a lousy hand with which to be calling raises OOP for the purposes of top pair potential. You're too short to play it for the IO's. If you don't get your ace on the flop, you'll probably be mucking. If you hit your ace, there is a good chance you are dominated and get stacked. Just let it go.

BTW - range for V2 seems horrible unless he likes to float and steal.

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08-22-2013 , 06:23 PM

eldiesel

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,585

Top off so you're not in this spot.

I'd fold, but I'm a nit, and I'm never sitting with less than $300.

AP though, if you shove I don't think you're ever called and better than 50%, but a lot of times you get called and are much less than 50%.

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08-22-2013 , 06:46 PM

RustyBalls

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 183

Quote:

Originally Posted by eldiesel

This. Plus take out the headphones. You're playing 1/2 I assume so talk to people and make friends.

I do think if we are called we are always behind. No one is calling with an ace we dominate or with two face cards. People are always calling with AA-QQ and AK. Most people are calling with AQ and JJ with some calling with any pocket pair. Point is we are basically just jamming hoping they both have nothing. Is that 27 really worth risking 103?

Fold and move onto the next hand after you top off.

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08-22-2013 , 08:30 PM

Mr_Doomed

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,629

When your are playing short stack 50bb in this case why put yourself in a fit or fold situation with an easily dominated hand. If you play short u should be playing tight not calling off 10% of your stack out of position with A10. Seems very -EV. I think shoving is way better than calling or obv you could just throw it away.

Last edited by Mr_Doomed; 08-22-2013 at 08:33 PM. Reason: Not paying attention

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08-23-2013 , 12:34 AM

Mr. August

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 154

I'm always going to 3bet A10 as a squeeze in this spot but with your short stack I would just shove

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08-23-2013 , 12:35 AM

#10

Mr. August

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 154

And ya top off so you don't end in spots like this

My 2cents

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08-23-2013 , 09:41 AM

#11

Az0r_au

adept

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 941

For simplicities sake I'm going to assume that at most only 1 villain calls, either by both folding, V1 re-shoving, or V1 folding and V2 calling. I'm also going to ignore rake.

Villain is opening ~28% of hands.
We have 38% equity against a calling range of 88+,ATs+,KQs,AJo+,KQo
Villain has to fold 61% of the time to be profitable.
Now this seems like alot, but remember if your range is accurate he's opening 28% of his hands and only calling with about 8% so he's calling less than 30% of the time!
Shoving here is extremely profitable.

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08-23-2013 , 09:52 AM

#12

AintNoLimit

Coach live/online NLHE

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 6,399

Topping off is a must do, but now that you are here this is an easy ship it. You win the dead money quite often before anyone decides to call it off.

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08-23-2013 , 10:35 AM

#13

samo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,251

Calling 12% of stack oop is not a solid play, so folding or shoving are the optimal choices imo. Based on the ranges you constructed, I think shoving is best. You also pull the FE lever with your aggression.

Last edited by samo; 08-23-2013 at 10:42 AM.

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08-23-2013 , 02:28 PM

#14

interesting.frog

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 87

Quote:

Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch

...
V1: Opens somewhat wide pre, but decent player post flop. I expect him to open 66+, A6s+, A9o+, K9s+, KJo, & QJ....

Hmm so you think he's adjusting for your stack size? At full stacks I think a "somewhat wide" $12 open from the CO will be more like

{22+,A2s+,A8o+,K2s+,KTo+,Q8s+,QTo+,J8s+,JTo,T7s+,9 6s+,85s+,74s+,64s+,53s+,42s+,32s #418}

instead of

{66+, A6s+, A9o+,K9s+,KJo+,QJ #206}

But assuming the range you gave, your hand has 32% equity against {99+, AQ+ #68} so you're actually risking $28 to win $27 if both players use that calling standard.

If BTN never 3-bets, this would make your shove ~0EV. But if BTN usually 3-bets JJ+, AK then shoving is very profitable.

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08-23-2013 , 05:18 PM

#15

playertee

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 4,999

Anybody wanna 3bet to 30 and jam any flop?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using 2+2 Forums

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08-23-2013 , 05:24 PM

#16

RustyBalls

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 183

Quote:

Originally Posted by playertee

Anybody wanna 3bet to 30 and jam any flop?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using 2+2 Forums

that would be horrible. raise a tiny bit to let them call with marginal hands and then hit the flop when you miss? if you are gonna do that just shove pre

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08-27-2013 , 08:29 AM

#17

playertee

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 4,999

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustyBalls

that would be horrible. raise a tiny bit to let them call with marginal hands and then hit the flop when you miss? if you are gonna do that just shove pre

Odds are everybody will miss, so with our stack size we can build a bigger pot pre and still have a PSB to get them to fold when they miss the flop (most of the time)

Sent from my SCH-I545 using 2+2 Forums

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08-27-2013 , 10:42 AM

#18

DonkeyCopter

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,320

Quote:

Originally Posted by playertee

I think the problem with this is that I see people call off on dry flops with AK/AQ, sometimes AJ to the shorty shove on the flop with 60-90 in the pot.

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08-27-2013 , 11:00 AM

#19

losttrappist

centurion

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 104

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Doomed

Fold. There will be much better spots.

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