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Aria 1/3 NLHE - TPTK facing big raise

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09-21-2018 , 11:34 PM

CaliDonkey

stranger

Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 8

V1 ($250) : 30 yo WG, tourist. I stacked him earlier with runner-runner full house. He shoved with nut flush, I don’t think he noticed that the board had paired. Mostly playing tight.

V2 ($250) : 30 yo Middle Eastern (?) man. Playing lots of hands, but not making any big raises until now.

Hero ($300) : Nerdy tourist

Hero (UTG) raises to $15 with AKo
V1 (UTG+1) calls
V2 (Button) calls

Flop ($45) : Ks8d5s (I don’t have any spades)

Hero bets $25
V1 calls
V2 raises to $100

Hero?

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09-22-2018 , 12:05 AM

macktyson

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 688

Fold, not playing for stacks here against your described V. Your description plus his actions cry set plus we re OOP next 2 rounds AND we still have V-1 left albeit he probably is much of a threat in this situation. Folding and waiting for a better spot.

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09-22-2018 , 12:06 AM

yuhongning

stranger

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 5

I think ,I fold that guys maybe set

从我的 iPad 发送，使用 Tapatalk

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09-22-2018 , 10:45 AM

QuadJ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 6,237

Against some opponents I go with this but against the described ones I generally fold. There are likely combos that you are getting odds against (draw and a worse KX) but if somebody turns up with a set you drawing nearly dead.

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09-22-2018 , 11:02 AM

tmo1120

adept

Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 1,027

V2: playing lots of hands

Not folding top top here in this spot, I'd flat call and see a turn card

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09-22-2018 , 11:40 AM

ImAllInNow

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,856

I would call here. If the villain in the middle puts another raise in, we can safely fold. I'd probably open-jam non spade/9/4/7/6 on the turn and check/evaluate those cards.

I'm not sure whether having the spade or not having the spade is better here. If we have the spade, then they can't be bluffing with the nut flush draw, but we could also potentially bluff turned spades and have more equity when up against a set.

We're probably too high in our range to fold here though for one raise, anyway.

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09-22-2018 , 11:56 AM

DrChesspain

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmo1120

V2: playing lots of hands

Not folding top top here in this spot, I'd flat call and see a turn card

With both Villains having only 80bb to start the hand, shouldn't we be considering GII right here if we are going to continue? Calling the flop only to fold the turn for barely 1/2 psb just doesn't seem right.

Last edited by DrChesspain; 09-22-2018 at 12:04 PM.

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09-22-2018 , 12:29 PM

aisrael01

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 415

Shove and pray. We're at the very top of our range. The only better hand we could have is 88 or KK. Folding isn't an option at this stack depth. We can't just fold > 90% of our range to a single raise -- that would be too exploitable. So we have to either call or shove. With a player in the middle still to act, calling actually looks like a stronger move to me. So I would shove and hope V2 shows up with a weaker king.

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09-22-2018 , 04:33 PM

macktyson

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 688

Quote:

Originally Posted by aisrael01

Folding is definitely an option here. This is first time this V has made a raise. You think he’s suddenly just making a big raise with a K? I don’t think so.

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09-22-2018 , 04:59 PM

#10

ImAllInNow

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 4,856

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrChesspain

My reasoning for calling is that if the middle villain puts in another raise he basically always has a set. If he wasn't in the hand, I'd probably be more apt to jam now.

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09-22-2018 , 05:51 PM

#11

monikrazy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 28,055

Fold. Folding is a mistake vs some pair + spade combo, but we are crushed by everything else and ops read suggests he has not been out of line. V1 calling also makes his range stronger. The only hand I am afraid to see is kq with a spade but hero only made 2 bets, he doesn't need to play for his stack here.

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09-22-2018 , 05:51 PM

#12

Amanaplan

acanalpanamA

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 5,628

Well you can’t just call.

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09-22-2018 , 07:20 PM

#13

aisrael01

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 415

Quote:

Originally Posted by macktyson

Folding is definitely an option here. This is first time this V has made a raise. You think he’s suddenly just making a big raise with a K? I don’t think so.

If we had a read that Villain plays his draws passively, maybe we can find a fold. I just don't think we can be sure of that based off a few hours of observed passive play -- maybe he was just carddead? If we want to be more cautious we could fold our AKo's with the Ace of spades (which block his draws).

Without strong reads I tend towards default strategy (GTO). If we treat the raise as an all-in, V2 is shoving 200 into a pot of 120. We have to call the top ~33% of our range. With the multiway pot, maybe we have to fold more often. Calling or reraising with our sets and some of our AK's, along with flush draws, seems balanced.

Last edited by aisrael01; 09-22-2018 at 07:46 PM.

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09-23-2018 , 05:37 AM

#14

6MaxLHE

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,007

Generally against loose passive players I would fold in this spot. Sure he is playing a lot of hands, but the player in MP also called and probably has a flush draw and is also not folding. The loose passive player who raised has usually bottom two or better here. Again if this were a spot where I was against a loose aggressive player heads up I would just rip it in OTF. But in this scenario I think we should fold because against both villain's ranges AK is not doing very well and I don't think shoving here is a good play at all.

Last edited by 6MaxLHE; 09-23-2018 at 05:59 AM.

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09-23-2018 , 06:17 AM

#15

4_4

grinder

Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 604

Shovel in the chips, high five the dealer and order another cocktail.

Probably a tough spot if we hold the As.

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09-23-2018 , 08:14 AM

#16

Petrucci

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 6,201

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4_4

Shovel in the chips, high five the dealer and order another cocktail.

Probably a tough spot if we hold the As.

You havent played much 1/3 at Aria have you? Venetian, Ceasars and Aria are the rooms in Vegas with the biggest percentage of grinders, nit regs and nit OMC.

Presenting this as a high five dealer stackoff spot with one pair is just pure crazyness.

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09-23-2018 , 09:04 AM

#17

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petrucci

You havent played much 1/3 at Aria have you? Venetian, Ceasars and Aria are the rooms in Vegas with the biggest percentage of grinders, nit regs and nit OMC.

Presenting this as a high five dealer stackoff spot with one pair is just pure crazyness.

When people in the "Win rates..Bankroll" thread discuss their biggest downswings I always think to myself....."how the hell do these guys have 7...10...20 buy in downswings?"

Then I read threads like this and there's the answer.

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09-23-2018 , 09:14 AM

#18

Petrucci

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 6,201

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

Pretty much this,yes. These things are correlated together for sure.

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09-23-2018 , 10:47 AM

#19

4_4

grinder

Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 604

Lol wr thread.
Top top nh last I checked.
Trivial spot lacking a super passive read.

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09-23-2018 , 10:51 AM

#20

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4_4

Lol wr thread.
Top top nh last I checked.
Trivial spot lacking a super passive read.

One of the easiest ways to crush these stakes is to stack people who cant fold TPTK.

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09-24-2018 , 10:27 AM

#21

macktyson

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 688

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4_4

Lol wr thread.
Top top nh last I checked.
Trivial spot lacking a super passive read.

V-2 sounds pretty passive to me.

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09-24-2018 , 02:24 PM

#22

gobbledygeek

Poet Laureate of LLSNL

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 36,150

I mostly limp/reraise preflop in EP.

I'm cool with the cbet on this drawy board and now I fold. We can't offer a couple of opponents ~20:1 preflop and just hurp durp off our stack when we hit TP. This guy hasn't done anything out-of-line yet, and flop raises on drawy boards are often simply very good hands worried about being sucked out on. He's also raising the preflop raiser and a caller, which is super strong.

GcluelessNLnoobG

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09-24-2018 , 02:52 PM

#23

mrdestiny

centurion

Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 148

Not sure how the info of V1 is relevant. You coolered him, congrats? (You are telling me you aren't going to go ALLIN with the nut-flush just because the board is paired?)

Vs a random middle-eastern man thats playing a lot of hands I am going to have a difficult time folding this hand. What kind of hands has he been showing down? I wouldn't be surprised if he had KQ or KJ here and is willing to play for his whole stack. If he's shown down some TPGK's with passive lines I can easily release this hand otherwise I'm going to go ALLIN for the $250.

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09-24-2018 , 04:32 PM

#24

macktyson

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 688

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrdestiny

I think you are ignoring the fact that the OP stated in his post that this V hasn't made any big raises until this hand. So he's basically playing a bunch of hands passively. Now all of a sudden he makes a big raise with KQ or KJ? I'm doubtful of that.