You don't remember, so you can't agree or disagree.

You say that now.

I'm sure you'll have a reason why this isn't an admittance of no recollection, but it's not my problem that you can't articulate your thoughts, "I don't know what the case was back then" is exactly what this means.

The one I read 10 years ago, I didn't invent it, that's what it was.

(nice edit)

see, you're just trolling now. I'm going to stop engaging but I'll leave you with my first point on this subject to you which still applies.

I find it hard to believe that RIO ever meant that. It's a lot more likely that you did (or still do) misunderstand what they mean.

just like you misunderstood that exact comment

wow never folding.

shoving is just asking for suiciding variance up a cliff.

call and bet on blank (non K, non heart) turns.

I hate to risk derailing the other fine discussion in this thread, but I sense I might be able to learn something here, or at very least understand considerations that might drive this in another direction.

If you're up for it, I'd like to dive a little deeper into the reasoning. A few questions...

If our raise gets called, are we will to stack off here, or will we fold to continued action. I realize the answer will be "it depends", but what do you see as the general plan for the hand following a raise and what are the major "it depends" factors?

Folding to a reraise seems clear, yes? Or are we committing?

I'm interpreting "gross" as (roughly) "really bad". Would you mind giving me some amplification there? My line is driven by concern about losing a lot when we're behind while winning comparatively little when ahead. (I'd like to avoid any shorthand for that situation at the moment )

Thanks in advance.

[Again, my apologies for the interruption to those who are just enjoying the catfight.]

Were you there when I read it 10 years ago? Why do you think that you're guess is better than my facts?



Stop engaging lol. You could have just not called me illiterate and never engaged in the first place.

Don't go broke 4-way for $1k with 1 pair on a wet board.

Okay.

1. Pre is close between raise and fold. Only you yourself will know if this is a table to be raising AQo from UTG+1 after UTG limps.

2. First flop action go around. SB leading out into the field, he can have a wide variety of hands which include:

QT, KQ, AQ, KT, T9, Heart draw, QJ, 44 and sometimes JJ. I don't want to include QQ because there is only 1 combination of it and the number of times someone just calls in the SB with QQ after raise and 2 callers is close to 0%.

BB's call range should be close to SB range but I would take out 44, QJ, JJ and add in some JT/J9/AJ/Qx hands.

Your flop call is fine. I see no reason to raise here unless people play their hands face-up (i.e. SB will always shove 2pair+ vs your raise and just calls with draws. Same with BB (but would be more partial to get it in vs BB since his range should be more weak hands/draw hands than 2pair+)).

That being said, when you call, and short stack shoves, and both SB/BB calls, you have to shove (I initally said call here but shove is better).

If SB had 2 pair+, she/he would shove flop. Your hand looks like AQ/AhKx/draws(?)/KK/AA. BB hand is pretty much all weak holdings + draws (which you're vastly ahead of).

In closing, Shove flop > Call flop - 375 turn on non heart/K(/J?) turn > Folding flop.

I didn't call you 'illiterate'. Just like I didn't write that you 'don't remember'

I wrote that you must have misunderstood what you read. Which...given that you have at least twice misunderstood what I wrote, is at least plausible don't you think?

eldiesel, I'm sorry, but you're the only one behaving like a "cnut" (lol) in this thread.

I would fold this. You have one pair and there are still two more betting rounds to come and really no gin cards for you. Pretty trivial fold imo, against their combined ranges.

I think V2 has a weaker hand most of the time here. If V3 gets involved after we raise, it's probably safe to fold. If V1 is really an aggrotard, it might be OK to stack off here. The only monsters he can really have are 44 and QJ unless he's too nitty to 3bet JJ from the blinds, whereas there are lots of draws in his range. In any case, I think the likely outcome is you get called by a draw and can bet again on a good turn.

Trust yourself.

1) you called the first "50" bet.

If you feel V1 has a draw then ship on the flop.

If you feel she is strong with 44,JJ,QJ then fold.

If you don't clearly feel but/and think she is rather strong, fold.

If you don't clearly feel but/and think she is more drawing, call.


Basically.

Always FOLD unless you really feel she is drawing then you ship. If you don't really feel she is drawing but think it is more likely then call.

2) You could raise the first bet. That is the more standard play.

Too bad I never said that Mr. I have the world's best reading comprehension skills.

If you love guys putting words in your mouth and calling you ******ed, that's fine. I don't like it.

Yeah i just didnt know. I was more worried about J4 than QJ. It was just a strange hand and given the deep stacks. Dont really want to go broke with TPTK