Again, you kind of seem out of touch w what these types, and frankly even a strong players, do/should think about. I mean, Java is likely the strongest player in this game, so, you're going to lock out the 2 morons by raising flop w your 'strong hand' while isolating the best players' pfr/large cbet... just bc you have a strong hand? This isn't about ancient concepts like 'slow-playing' and 'drawy-flop' - between this and liping strats and SPR nonsense... I gotta stop, you prob can improve so much even 5million posts in if you just do everything in your power to start absorbing different concepts of how to make money/limit downside in theses monkey cages.

This guy just check/shoved top set on drawless board he had locked up. So, yeah, I think he's raising top two / set on a drawy board multiway. How is that a ridiculous read on the situation?

GcluelesspooltendenciesnoobG

I can't synthesize all your pieces of reads on this guy (or this archetype?) into one coherent overall read.

So he's cold calling hands like KTo and JTs to... do what exactly? Flop top pair, call a flop bet, and hope it checks down to showdown? Make two pair or better and call another bet but not a big bet? Even very bad players usually have some sort of plan, and empathizing with their bad plan helps us get their money.

Somehow this guy's sophisticated enough to plan his flop line around keeping the weak players in, yet so unaware of bluffing that he's considering folding trips?

Each of your points might be valid for many players in isolation, but I just don't see how they fit together.

'Tight v passive guy that has lots of AK/JJ+ pre as calls often just called my 45 cbet into 3 people on KJ6s - the J isn't a heart - he has sets, limited draws, AA, AK, KT maybe, KJ, KQ mostly etc -- neither NF/2NF nor SF draws avail... others fold, ok, I still have NFD to try and get small amounts from bc he isn't stacking off on my heart turns/rivs, T is a money card, and is likely defensive against my perceived AK/KK with all of his flop calling range... turn K, ***... hand over ... he's putting in money tentatviely w Kx and might continue calling/checking boats ... I have air and a terrible combo to have on this turn w no J or K in hand- yeah I'm blocking his best maybe-he-has-occasionally-in-this-spot-draws, and likely can't make much on a heart riv, hand over, yeah, done --- check'

Actually this is an important part of the read and probably explains part of why he's playing so passively (except the AK hand, where might even have been attempting a favor to get Hero to fold, hard to tell). Often off-duty dealers are just looking to kill time before their shift, and often they tend to softplay the regs who'll be taking hands from them an hour later.

Sometimes a player like that will make the nuts, shove, and tell the reg "Seriously, just fold. I have it." They're never lying.

No doubt there are some people who would stiff a dealer who took them to value town an hour earlier as a player -- hopefully not the majority of players! I doubt the tip equity they're saving makes up for the lost value playing poker, but that's at least an understandable way to think.

So yeah, this guy's probably just never raising much, except to keep you out of trouble.

This is an underground game. He wasn't the dealer that day and came to play. He wants to win, but is just extremely tight/passive -- it has nothing to do with being a dealer today. Now, the guy who runs the game will play that way. If he bets into you, raises you, or even calls, you better slow down.

Even if he were waiting to deal, I do not think it would affect his play at all.

Java, for a guy wanting to win, would you be surprised if he just flatted your flop cbet with top two / set on this drawy board (especially with another guy still to react)?

Gwe'llletOPdecidethis,imoG

OK. Thanks. Well, that was my last-gasp attempt at trying to weave together all these reads into an idea of how this fella thinks about the game.

I'm open-minded, and maybe my ranges are miscalibrated for live SSNL archetypes, but if so, I'm not understanding how to recalibrate them for a player like this. He's just trying to flop a lot of middle-strength hands with Bway cards and then make no money from them?

Close. He's trying to make some money but not lose all of his, if that makes sense Tight/passive/ slightly scared money. The AA vs. KK hand I posted is a good example. I seriously almost folded and knew I should have.

A different guy in this game shoved >$100 first to act into three calling stations into a $50 pot w/ QQ on a 2XQ2 board to give you some idea of who I'm playing with

Results: I thought I was ahead for sure when the flush hit. However, I didn't think this guy would ever commit the rest of his money, regardless of pot size or his hand. I bet $50. He started hemming and hawing about how bad he plays and how bad he played this hand, and then he sigh called and MHIG.

He didn't show, but I think he had AK/KQ, or maybe AA, but not sure he'd call turn/river w/ that hand.

Sounds like the hemming and hawing is sincere and you played the river perfectly. If he'd snap called $50, you'd be wondering if you bet too little.

nh

Yea good job going small otr - guy probably just calls 66 too. Standard nitfish opponent - He played it fine up until the river.