300bb effective. V1 is classic TAG grinder, 3-bets optimally pre and more of a 5/10 player. V2 is kind of stationy post, competent pre. Vbets thin. Not good, probably breakeven. Hero seems LAGgy, winning mostly non-sd pots, some bluffs shown.

V1 limps UTG. V2 opens CO to 5bb, Hero flats OTB AcQd, V1 flats (which is weird).

Flop (16.5bb) Q22r

V1 checks, V2 cbet 7bb. Hero flats, as V2 will hang himself and V1 is weirding us out. V1 flats also.

Turn (37.5bb) 9o

V1 checks, V2 weak leads 11bb. Hero flats. V1 c/r 37bb. V2 flats.

?

why not just use the original dollar amounts?

what was your plan when you flatted pre and did a 3bet ever cross your mind?

My plan was a) V1 is limp-rr/squeezing a ton and I DON'T want to 3b/fold, and b) V2 is opening light, I want tgree streets from a weaker Q if V1 c/f flop.

Yeah, I oscillate between $$$ and bb, it seems easier for players who play 1/2, 1/3 primarily to track in bb, maybe not.

Fold. When V1 check/raises two people on the turn AQ is probably the bottom of his possible range. It is hard to put him on a range because everything is unlikely, but he isn't flatting pre, flatting flop and check/raising two people on the turn with worse. If he though he could raise you off weak hands he would do it on the flop.

Is one of the deuces a club? Is the 9 a diamond?

No, yes. There's one combo of A2hh out there, no Q9dd. Do you think V1 limp-calls A2s UTG?

Preflop is a 3bet.

I don't see how you can fold the turn. Everyone in the hand looks incredibly weak, and the raise is tiny. River might be a difficult decision, but we'll have to see what happens.

Wtf, he's repping like one combo of quads and one combo of A2s. There's also one combo of QQ but I'd discount that to just about zero. I guess he could have 99 here?

We've underrepped our hand and the action looks weak.

I think he's just trying to steal it. Call and see what happens on the river.

Given that there are at least two players other than V1 with at least 300bb stacks, then, yes, I do think even a solid TAG player as you have described V1 can limp-call A2s UTG (as well as Q9s some of the time). 23s or 24s seems much less likely, but even TAGs who are playing down and assuming a good edge against deep effective stacks can make such plays from the worst position. Given stack sizes, limp-callling QQ from a quality UTG TAG is also not unheard of, especially if previous action or meta-game can warrant it. You can also be chopping, but V1 playing AQ that way is generally really bad for a supposedly good player. Finally, V1 is getting just over 4-1 with decent implied odds to check-call 99. Don't usually see it, but it's possible since stacks are deep.

As such, V1's range is extremely narrow to the few combos (A2hh, 22, 99, and maybe a Q9s) that dominate you. There is no bluff that he can rep from his position. You're ahead of just a poorly played KQ/QJ/QT. Moreover, V2's flat of a check-raise ain't exactly comforting.

Absent of more info, I'm inclined to fold but will often find a call since we won't be close to committed. Against two deep stacks where one check-raises the turn from OOP on a paired board and the other flats, however, you're rarely facing better than a chop. If V1 "outplayed" you with a hand you actually beat, then he chose a really poor spot to do it.

Yes.

I agree with V1, but V2 basically flatted without thinking. I'm wondering how many overpairs are in his range, the small bets are kind of like pot controlling...

We may have to agree to disagree, since I can't see too many TAG grinders limp-calling UTG with A2s or Q9s, or calling on this flop after a bet and a call.

?

Yeah, exactly. Like, I've got over 200hrs live play with this guy.

I don't know what that means either.

I guess we're at an impasse.

I have a UTG limp/calling range at some tables (passive ones). 99 and A2s are in it. I would call 99 almost all of the time but just fold the suited ace if the pot isn't multiway enough.

OK, but would you be calling this flop w/99 after a bet and a call?

so V1 is going to l/rr with ATC?

if you planned on flatting pre to get 3 streets of value against a weaker Q, the problem with that plan is it's only going to happen like one in three million times that he has KQ (also assuming he will go broke with it). All the other times are you going to check/fold?

this is why you need to 3bet pre.

as played I would fold and wish that I would have 3bet pre :O

The thing about this hand is that we know villain did something weird. They limp/called from UTG, something scelsi says this villain never does. Then they flatted the flop bet and check/raised 2 people on the turn. A very unusual pattern for a TAG player.

Given the weak betting normally I would say there is a decent chance TPTK is the best hand here and villain is trying to push the bettor off a weak hand. In this hand the villain check/raised two people. That puts a lot more strength in villain's range because he has to expect somebody has a top pair. Could villain be trying to push somebody off KQ by representing AQ? Sure, it's possible. It is my experience though that when decent TAG opponents taking odd betting lines suddenly get aggressive they often have some odd disguised nuts. 99 that hung around on flop because the betting was weak, A2s that called pre to mix up their range, 22 that wants to see if somebody is willing to get stacks in, possibly AA/KK that meant to limp/raise and forgot to raise.

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