Hero has been fairly active and losing every hand he plays for the first hour. Villains are very loose pre and probably will stack off with top pair any kicker post flop.

Average stack is about 250 and hero has 300.

LJ limps, hero opens 87hh to 25 in the CO and button, BB, and limper call.

Pot:100

Flop774 two spades.

Checks to hero. Check it or bet and thoughts on sizing?. Hero went for 75. It's a standard bet but if a non spade peels off that gives one of them top pair they will always stack off so does that make a check worth it?

The advantage of betting is 88-JJ will stack off right now as will flush draws. I also give a pocket pair a chance at its two outer if I don't bet.

Always betting this flop with this hand. I probably size a touch smaller ($60), but your sizing is fine.

Always bet.
Win da monies.
Profit.

Just to reiterate, the only reason I'm considering a check is their ranges are so wide made hands like 88 are a really small part of the range. Meanwhile they have hands like K8 and if a red king or 8 comes I get stacks.

I know betting is the standard line but I wonder in a scenario like this if checking can be exploitatively the most +EV play.

^^^The board is too wet and there are too many players, IMO.

Judging by stack sizes this is a 1/2 or 1/3 game why are you raising to 25 preflop? In my opinion I think thats too much.

Yes bet, and I would choose a sizing anywhere between 55%-80% of pot

Sorry it's 3/5 $200 max first buy in. Once you go below $100 you can reload for $300. Should've stated that. Preflop sizings are generally huge. Opens to $25/30 without a limp are pretty common.

Ok in that case its fine. Definitely betting flop here and continuing on most turns

Grunch: what level is this? If this is 1/2, or even 1/3, opening 78s to $25 when you have a bad image is just awful.

AP, never checking given 1) hero image, 2) paired board on which LLSNL Vs are notorious non-believers, and 3) wet board with a bunch of cards that kill your hand or your action.

Thanks for the feedback. It was 3/5, forgot to mention that in the post sorry.

Never checking a 1% flop with 87s after Vs called your preflop raise (and way too large, yes). You're completely concealed here and pretty much guaranteed to get a call on the flop by most pocket pairs and most 8X hands. As mentioned, you also have some action killers possible so build your pot now. With a brick turn I'd consider a check if you're heads up since you're not likely to get 3 streets of value against any hands that wouldn't have 3b you pre-flop, although you might give spades a free card in that case so I'd probably still bet but it's V-dependent. If still multi-way on the turn I'm betting at least 2/3 or psb against a non-spade.

Never checking. I would tone down the sizing though - $60ish on the flop.

Pretty much ends it right here. Can't believe this is 3/5

At this table and with a losing image I prefer overlimping 87s to raising.

Here's one of my bigger "ahas" in poker

I used to wonder if i should cbet $60-$80 here or check.

Guess what, there's another option.

I'm guessing this is 1/3 NL?

If you can take down the pot / isolate someone, especially at tables where no one is paying off postflop, then preflop might not be setting money on fire. At a loose table, preflop is setting money on fire, especially at tables where people will stack off postflop with TP (hint: you want to see a flop with these people with speculative hands, not blow them out of the pot preflop). Super easy overlimp at a table like this, and anything else is torching money, imo.

I'd PSB the flop to setup a turn shove. You know what calls $75 on the flop but not $100? Nothing.

ETA: I also don't hate Ava's idea of shoving (if that is what he is advocating), and with these stacks sizes and opponents that might be best.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I'm probably not going heavier than PSB depending on villains...

But as for the standard c-bet price for this pot of anywhere from 55 to 80... I would definitely shade toward the heaviest end of that range of c-bets.

I would say the c-bet range for this exact hand is 75-100, unless you just have absolute gambloorsss who will call anything then maybe overbet to kill it here and scoop with a $125 cbet

There would have to be a perfect situation in order to advocate a shove here. Say, one of the villains is drunk and spewing/reloading constantly. Then I could possibly get on board with swinging for the fences. But that is only super scenario dependent.

I wouldnt shove gg...i would bet like $20.

Ug, I hate this.

Is this an attempt to invoke? I just find most opponents are far too passive / non-bluffy in multiway pots postflop for this to work very often. I highly doubt anyone at this table is folding an overpair / draw, but in my experience, they aren't going to do the heavy lifting for us either.

GcluelessinvokingnoobG

shhh

check flop and let them catch a pair on the turn then start going for fat value. easy game. dont be scared.

Odds of them catching a pair on the turn and no draw coming in to kill your action (or hand, though that's less likely) are less than the odds of someone having a hand they're willing to call a bet with now.

Betting is not about being scared, it's about maximizing value.

^^^ I disagree.

OK. Show me the math.

Crappy image and 50bb stacks, it's prolly a fold pre. Not that I'd drive to a casino to fold this hand in the CO. Just worth noting that this situation is dubious.