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Old 02-11-2019, 12:11 PM   #1
QuadJ
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Another AA situation preflop

Playing 2/5. Table has a lot of regulars but mostly not good so I'm fine with it.

Hero $1700. TAG and all 3 villains know it.
V1 - >$3K Regular. Seems like the type that wants to be a grinder pro but isn't quite there. Generally TAG but likes to raise limpers too often to have value every time. Post flop is OK but barrels his bluffs too often and calls too many big river bets. Currently has a huge stack when he hit a flush vs a set. Never open limps and very rarely limps into pots at all. Have not seen him enough to tell if he is a long term winner or not.
V2 - $1200 Very laggy and dangerous regular. I have played a lot with him in the past. Plays 10/10 when it runs and seems like a winning player overall.
V3 - $900 Regular fish. Typical too loose preflop but otherwise just meh.

V1 raises in MP to $25. From MP his range is fairly tight, AK/AQ/KQ/AJs/99+ with a few other suited connectors and pairs mixed in.
V2 raises in MP to $70. V2 probably has a few bluffs in his range here but from MP with some loose fish after him not many. His raising range is probably around the same range V1 has for opening but probably chucks AJ and calls sometimes with TT/99.
V3 calls in SB. V3 considered things a bit before calling and looked like he wanted to raise, didn't look like he considered folding.
Hero in BB has AsAc.

What to do? The concern that weighed on me is that I'm deep and OOP against the dangerous opponents.
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:27 PM   #2
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

If V1 never open limps, perhaps V2 has a wider MP opening range for V1? Does your 4-b range/squeeze include hands as weak as A5s/ATs?

I’d go $240.
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:40 PM   #3
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

What will V1 do if you flat?

$250 or so would be my standard but if V1 is aggro enough and will jump on the opportunity to squeeze V2, then I might FPS myself into flatting to bait V1 into a 4b. V1 can’t put V4 or H on a huge hand after flatting thereby setting up a perfect squeeze against V2. More I think about it, against an aggro V1 who’ll Make a mistake I like a flat. Definitely 5b jamming if given the opportunity. Would hate for it to go 4 ways, 3b OOP but nothing wrong with playing some post flop poker.
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:11 PM   #4
QuadJ
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

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Originally Posted by samo View Post
If V1 never open limps, perhaps V2 has a wider MP opening range for V1?
V2 probably would have a wider calling range but not a wide raising range. V1 doesn't have a lot of weak hands and isn't a soft target. Plus V2 has a table specific problem of having the loose fish after him. He is more likely to flat and see what sort of situation he can exploit post flop then try to push V1 around preflop.

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Does your 4-b range/squeeze include hands as weak as A5s/ATs?
Not in this situation. V1 and V2 have fairly strong ranges and are not people I want to play OOP. V3 was contemplating a raise preflop from the SB also and isn't going to give up his hand easily.

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What will V1 do if you flat?
More flat then anything, his 4 betting range would be super narrow. V3 would be the big concern. He would know that I'm never flatting garbage but I could be fishing with a pocket pair or suited connectors. He would know that V2 could be kidding but has more value then bluffs. The big thing is V3 flatted out of the SB after considering a raise and is likely on AK/JJ+.
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:13 PM   #5
Avaritia
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

$350
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:17 PM   #6
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

This is such a dream spot, raise 250ish.

V1 and V2 are probably aware that we're aware of how nutted our hand looks with this raise so they can level themselves into calling light in position.
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:18 PM   #7
CRAIerrday
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

Kind of a gross spot, you want action but don't want to be in a sticky postflop spots still with a 200+ BB stack. I'd make a pretty big raise, somewhere between 280-300.

I'm also curious what you would do with AK in this scenario
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:18 PM   #8
MogFish
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

The situation sets up perfectly for a cold 4b squeeze after V2s small 3 bet and V3s cold call in the SB. Even with your tight image Id make it $300 in an attempt to look bluffy. Id play it the same way with AK.


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Old 02-11-2019, 01:27 PM   #9
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

I think that too many players lose hands on AA, either by slow playing and getting rivered or by NOT raising enough pre-flop! As top pair you really don't want any strong ppl to call, so it needs to be big enough to scare V1 &V2 but leaves the possibility of the fish calling! I would favour a 5b of $350! Hope then HU with fish then regardless (unless flop a set/quad!) c bet with a possible re-raise!
Should V1/V2 call then possibly check - raise?
If any think this is risky then please feel free to enlighten me!
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:31 PM   #10
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

Yep, although it looks superstrong obv, it does not appear than anything other than a 4bet is viable here
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:41 PM   #11
donkatruck
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

Have to 4b and I think $320-$350 is the right amount. Even if you fold out everybody else, you'll probably still get a call from SB's JJ-QQ/AK.
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:03 PM   #12
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

i like a larger amount like 350 here given the cold caller
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:39 PM   #13
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

If you had a BS image, cold 4b shove seems pretty interesting. I actually did this once in a relatively deep game where all the regs and I had high 3b frequencies that game and were playing very aggro, and I got called in both spots for 2nd biggest pot of my life. The PFR tanked for a long time and eventually called lol, was like high 200bb deep.

Ap cold 4b to like $280-$330
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:42 AM   #14
BackDoorFlush
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

Flatting would be an epic mistake.

$300
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:51 AM   #15
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

250 - 300 looks good,
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:27 AM   #16
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
If you had a BS image, cold 4b shove seems pretty interesting. I actually did this once in a relatively deep game where all the regs and I had high 3b frequencies that game and were playing very aggro, and I got called in both spots for 2nd biggest pot of my life. The PFR tanked for a long time and eventually called lol, was like high 200bb deep.

Ap cold 4b to like $280-$330
Wow sick high 200bb stacks holy ****. That's like 565 at 1/2. Most games now you can buyin for 200bb.

Gonna guess actual sizing was 200 and got called in 2 spots and flop was KQ8ss
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:56 AM   #17
Minatorr
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

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Wow sick high 200bb stacks holy ****. That's like 565 at 1/2. Most games now you can buyin for 200bb.

Gonna guess actual sizing was 200 and got called in 2 spots and flop was KQ8ss
Considering I started playing at 5NL and grinded up to 200NL within a year, me playing a $1.3k pot was huge at the time. It was by far my biggest pot at the time and comparing live vs online in terms of pot size is pretty ****ing lol. Yeah sure 200NL is the same monetary value as 1/2 but they're completely different and 200NL is light years ahead of the micros and 5 stakes up. $1.3k is a huge amount to online players, most of which the overwhelming amount are still stuck at micros and don't even have $1.3k. And I'm also a college student, not an adult with a full-time job/relative financial stability & a decent roll without loans like basically every poster here has.

That pot was worth 20-25% of my roll.

If you had a $30k roll for 5/10, a pot worth that much of your roll %-wise, well I hope you can do math lmfao.

Last edited by Minatorr; 02-12-2019 at 03:23 AM.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:05 AM   #18
MikeStarr
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

A smallish 4 bet is AA 99% of the time. I can only remember 1 time a guy made a smallish 4 bet, got to showdown and didn't have AA.

Based on that, I'm making it a minimum of $500 and it still going to be obvious to anyone with a brain that I have AA. If we had $700-$800 effective, Id jam it all in for sure. Most people think that's AK.
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Old 02-12-2019, 10:26 AM   #19
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
A smallish 4 bet is AA 99% of the time. I can only remember 1 time a guy made a smallish 4 bet, got to showdown and didn't have AA.

Based on that, I'm making it a minimum of $500 and it still going to be obvious to anyone with a brain that I have AA. If we had $700-$800 effective, Id jam it all in for sure. Most people think that's AK.
Agree. 250 is exactly the sizing you NOT choose w JJ-KK and AK. I am somewhat in the 400ish area. It's a sizing you can 4bet/fold the weaker hands and you put your opponents into a tough spot w KK or AK and produce mistakes.
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:37 AM   #20
QuadJ
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

I went with $350 after some thinking. I had to raise enough to price V1 and V2 out but I wanted V3 to get sticky. $250 would be the minimum reasonable bet but if I do that and V1 comes along I probably get all 3 of them.

In the end V1 though for a while and folded. V2 obviously had already made his decision and folded as soon as V1 folded. V3 agonized for a while and finally folded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
If you had a BS image, cold 4b shove seems pretty interesting. I actually did this once in a relatively deep game where all the regs and I had high 3b frequencies that game and were playing very aggro, and I got called in both spots for 2nd biggest pot of my life. The PFR tanked for a long time and eventually called lol, was like high 200bb deep.
Even with a nitty image when playing 1/2 making the apparently spazz shove when I have AA works well. I'm always amazed at what I get called with. I didn't think of it here though, that move doesn't generally work at 2/5. It might have been a good situation for it though. It would have given V3 a chance to read the situation wrong and call.
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Old 02-12-2019, 11:43 AM   #21
Avaritia
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

If you are worried about people folding just remember that winning 34bbs uncontested is always a good thing.

Also remember there are other things you can do to have an aggressive image (that still doesn’t include anything other than having AKs/KK+ here). 3bet more linear is the main one.

Basically if you are thinking you need to size down in order to get called, you are making a mistake somewhere else.

Don’t shove. That never works at 2/5. A thousand dollars is a thousand dollars.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:44 PM   #22
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

Easily $300-350 given stack depth and OOP.

You've got 12 combos of AA/KK for value, 16 combos of AK semi bluffs and 4 combos of A5s if you want to add more bluffs to the mix.

You can keep tweaking this by adding 6 QQ for value, 16 AQ for semi bluffs and 4 A4s for bluffs.
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Old 02-12-2019, 06:20 PM   #23
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

$325. I'd also do this with a bunch of other hands as a bluff if I think everyone is pretty light since it looks so strong.
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Old 02-16-2019, 07:49 AM   #24
limpinbarney
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Re: Another AA situation preflop

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$325. I'd also do this with a bunch of other hands as a bluff if I think everyone is pretty light since it looks so strong.
You can't bluff for 325$ in this spot because you have to make an odds call against the SB if he shoves.
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