I was playing around with the Hold 'Em Lab app, because I feel like I've been under c betting, though maybe not by much. I was really surprised to see how wide/narrow some of the range advantages were on various boards, and has left me with some questions. I ran out nine different board textures, and did my "average" EP/MP/LP ranges vs "average" loose and tight BB opponents, though 1/2 player ranges are very similar between what they'll call from any position, so I don't think this has to be limited to just when they're in the BB.

My "average" EP opening range: 77+, all suited broadways, AQo+, T9s

My "average" MP opening range: EP range + 22-66, A2s-A9s, AJo, ATo KQo, KJo, 98s, 87s, 76s, K9s, Q9s, J9s, T8s

My "average" LP opening range: MP range + 65s, 54s, 43s, 97s, 86s, 75s, 64s, 53s, A2o-A9o, all unsuited broadways, K2s-K8s, Q5s-Q8s, J7s-J8s, K9o, Q9o, J9o, T9o, T7s, 96s

What I defined as "average" tight BB defense/calling range:66-TT, 87s, 98s, T9s, ATo+, all suited broadways except AKs, KQo, KJo, and A2s-A9s

What I defined as "average" loose BB defense/calling range: 22-TT, K2s+, Q5s+, J7s+, T7s+, 96s+, 85s+, 74s+, 63s+, 53s+, 43s, A2o+, K8o+, Q9o, J9o, all suited and nonsuited broadways except AK

NOTE: left hand # refers to hero's range and right hand # refers to villain's range. I.e. 54-46 equates to a 54%-46% advantage
1. JT9sss
EP vs tight=54.8-45.2
MP vs tight=48.5-51.5
LP vs tight=43.7-56.3
EP vs loose=61.1-38.9
MP vs loose=56-44
LP vs loose=52.2-47.8

2.JT9r
EP vs tight=58-42
MP vs tight=48.4-51.6
LP vs tight=41-59
EP vs loose=66.5-33.5
MP vs loose=58.7-41.3
LP vs loose=53.1-46.9

3.876r
EP vs tight=58.7-41.3
MP vs tight=54.5-45.5
LP vs tight=48.7-51.3
EP vs loose=58.4-41.6
MP vs loose=54.8-45.2
LP vs loose=50.5-49.5

4. 432r
EP vs tight=57.7-42.3
MP vs tight=55.3-44.7
LP vs tight=50.2-49.8
EP vs loose=60-40
MP vs loose=57.6-42.4
LP vs loose=54.2-45.8

5. 774r
EP vs tight=60.5-39.5
MP vs tight=54.6-45.4
LP vs tight=47.9-52.1
EP vs loose=63.7-36.3
MP vs loose=59.3-40.7
LP vs loose=54.1-45.9

6. A72r
EP vs tight=49.3-50.7
MP vs tight=48-52
LP vs tight=44.8-55.2
EP vs loose=63.1-36.9
MP vs loose=59.6-40.4
LP vs loose=56.4-43.6

7. J55r
EP vs tight=61.4-38.6
MP vs tight=51.4-48.6
LP vs tight=46.4-53.6
EP vs loose=65.4-34.6
MP vs loose=57.3-42.7
LP vs loose=54.1-45.9

8. 654r
EP vs tight=57.3-42.7
MP vs tight=55.1-44.9
LP vs tight=49.5-50.5
EP vs loose=57.4-42.6
MP vs loose=56.7-43.3
LP vs loose=52.4-47.6

9. 975ss
EP vs tight=60.2-39.8
MP vs tight=56.4-43.6
LP vs tight=49.2-50.8
EP vs loose=58.7-41.3
MP vs loose=55.9-44.1
LP vs loose=50.2-49.8


I was genuinely surprised that I literally could not find one flop, regardless of position, in which the loose callers have a range advantage. The closest being the 50.2-49.8 advantage on the 975ss board when we open from LP. I remember a poster saying that he c bets almost every single time vs a tight opponent, but cbets significantly less frequently vs loose opponents. Looser opponents tend to be more stationary, so I agree that it makes sense to c bet less frequently vs loose opponents, but seeing that it appears to be impossible to be at a range disadvantage vs a loose opponent, should we be c betting more liberally?

This brings me to the next question, which is - how important is the nut advantage when deciding whether or not to c bet? If it wasn't important, it appears we would c bet literally 100% of the time vs loose opponents. I think I'm over checking boards that aren't super connected, but only contain mid-low cards, thinking that these cards are in v's range and I'm likely to get called by any pair, but should I be c betting these boards purely based on the fact that v's calling range is super wide and that he'll miss significantly more often than not?

I was also very surprised to see that one of the classic examples of a bone dry board - the A72r we're literally always at a range disadvantage vs a tight caller. Should we not be c betting the bone dry A high flops vs tight opponents?

It appears that coordinated, or uncoordinated boards that contain exclusively mid and low cards are our favorite flops for c betting vs tight opponents. I just had the idea that was taught to me "boards that contain low-mid cards, and especially ones that are coordinated are ones that we don't want to be c betting," when in reality it appears a "nightmare flop" vs a competent opponent such as 876r should be c bet every time vs a tight opponent, except for when we open from LP.

Last bit I found interesting, I am at a range disadvantage or basically every single flop when I open from LP and a tight player calls. Should I be checking most boards when I open from LP and a tight player calls?


Thank you so much for reading all of this and in advance for the discussion. If you think my ranges are off, please let me know.

Your "tight" blind range is a little loose for many tight players heads up out of the BB and is rather ace heavy. Against most players I expect more pairs and probably the occasional call with a wider range of suited connectors. Your "loose" blind defense range is very loose. Even bad loose players are usually chucking the suited garbage out of the BB if it's going to be heads up.

Against very loose players you should c-bet more because they have to miss most flops. Against some loose fish you can c-bet 100% of flops. But in general you don't want to go over board, if you start c-betting everything you become vulnerable to villains reraising with air or floating you. The flops to watch out for with loose aggressive/bluffy/spazzy players are the wet flops, where their combined draw+bluff range will make it hard for you to continue when villain gets aggressive.

The ace high dry flops are ones where knowing your opponent really matters. If they are playing the sort of ace heavy range you list then yes, just chuck those flops unless you have equity. Against most opponents you want to c-bet those flops because it clarifies your position. If you c-bet and they don't fold you have to put a significant chance on them having an ace and you can play appropriately. If you have a laggy image yourself this won't work as well because people will expect you to c-bet these flops and will call more.

As for the coordinated flops, it looks like they are good board for c-betting partially because your range for tight callers is too ace heavy and partially because your not accounting for the dangers of bluffs/draws/have the second best hand. Even if you are ahead slightly on range you will be putting yourself into a lot of tough situations on the turn when you bet and an opponent calls. It sets up a lot of turn situations where you are guessing where you stand and that puts the profitability edge on the villain's side even if you have a slight equity edge.

Probably too many questions in one thread and too many general ones at that, imo it’s best to take a look at one or two at a time. You can’t put blanket statements over those types of questions.

I am somewhat dubious you undercbet but also something important to note is that your HU cbet strat should be drastically diff from multiway pots. Sounds very, very obvious but maybe it isnt and imo a lot of people don’t rly adjust enough. IP you should cbet more aggressively, OOP not as much.

Do you think it'd be more accurate to include only broadway and wheel A's? As you said, they're probably defending randomly with suited connectors, so wouldn't these coordinated boards be good to c bet vs tight opponents because of the fact that they shouldn't have too many draws or made hands?

I feel more confident in the loose range for the average loose player in my games, though I do play in great games.

Against a generic tight player probably something like ATs/AJo+ is their always call range. But this varies widely enough I would study it per player. Unless you have a laggy image he better tight players might be something like AQs+/AQo+. While some tight fish will have more weaker suited aces in their range. Stack sizes also matter. The shorter stacks are the less good players will flat you at all heads up OOP. Some might have no flatting range with AX, anything worth playing is worth raising.

Low coordinated flops are good for c-betting against tight players. It shouldn't him them and even if they think you may be bluffing they are unlikely to float OOP. Medium coordinated flops are OK but do hit their calling ranges some of the time.