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Old 05-09-2014, 12:02 PM   #26
TheGramuel
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Re: Am I a station, or just really good?

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Originally Posted by dicecube View Post
U gave him a free card and he hit his set on the turn
Lol

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No he didn't?
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Old 05-09-2014, 05:26 PM   #27
Swanndogg
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Re: Am I a station, or just really good?

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Originally Posted by dicecube View Post
U gave him a free card and he hit his set on the turn
Lol

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you are so bad.
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Old 05-09-2014, 06:01 PM   #28
venice10
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Re: Am I a station, or just really good?

I'll disagree with most people on their analysis. I think you played it well and I'd play it the same way. This is a dry flop and the SPR is less than 2. Your range should contain lots of non-ace hands and the average player is going to read this as you having an underpair. If someone starts betting, I'm calling it down.

I wouldn't read too much into the blind shove on the river. It is a fish move, but he can show up here with 97 too.
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Old 05-12-2014, 12:50 PM   #29
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Re: Am I a station, or just really good?

What's our read on UTG+1? If he's fairly straightforward, I don't think I'm in love with AQo. Might also depend on table dynamics and whether he's thinking someone else will raise (i.e. where he'd limp/reraise his really big hands). I might be folding AQo more than 3betting it here.

As played, we're 100% committed with these remaining stacks / SPR and flopped TP. On this dry board and with an aggro involved in the hand, I actually love the flop check back.

The aggro fell hook/line/sinker for our flop check back, and now we simply call him down (or shove the rest in if he checks to us). I like our postflop play.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 05-12-2014, 01:06 PM   #30
mtagliaf
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Re: Am I a station, or just really good?

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Originally Posted by dgiharris View Post
normally yeah I agree, however OP did say Villain was aggro and not that good so I'm more or less fine 3-betting with AQ if we have confidence V's opening range is much wider than the typical EP raise at this level.
OP also said "Not much more of a read than that. Hero just sat.", which to me is enough reason to NOT 3bet AQo. But I'm a nit.
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Old 05-12-2014, 01:30 PM   #31
chino85
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Re: Am I a station, or just really good?

i also have the experience that that put out my stack like its definitely going in no matter what i weighted towards being weak by most people.

id prob lean towards flatting an ep raise with no reads on table yet.

as played i don't mind the check back bc your SPR is so low but yea definitely calling off turn and river since you tried to induce this. and your pot odds on the river is too good to fold imo.

my standard action on this flop would be to bet 1/3-1/2 pot.
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Old 05-21-2014, 12:07 AM   #32
dicecube
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you are so bad.
Please elaborate

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Old 05-21-2014, 09:41 AM   #33
Axel Foley
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Flop is so dry that the only somewhat strong draw is T8. So I like the flop play. We greatly expand the range of hands that we can get value from when they think we don't have the ace.

Based on that, I think we certainly have to call down turn and river. When a flush draw appears on the turn the villain can hold TT/JJ/AJ/AT and put us on a club draw. In actuality he decided to spazz out with a gutshot, but in general we checked the flop to encourage spazz and we got it.
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Old 05-21-2014, 09:46 AM   #34
AintNoLimit
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Re: Am I a station, or just really good?

If hero thought the V could easily be duped into barreling off turn and river here then I think hero line is optimal. With these stack sizes there is no reason to get the money in the pot right away.

3 handed, the V will easily believe that hero is not playing games here, but moreso playing straightforward with QQ KK etc. If we are behind, we lose either way, but with this line we pick up bluffs from an aggressive V and basically never lose value.

Balance is not an issue here.

Very well done if thought out in this way.
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Old 05-21-2014, 09:56 AM   #35
Axel Foley
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One other interesting aspect of this hand: to what degree do we think this will create respect for the next time we make a delayed c-bet? Do we figure that at least a few of our villains will remember this hand for the next hour, or is that giving way too much credit?
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Old 05-21-2014, 09:56 AM   #36
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Re: Am I a station, or just really good?

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Originally Posted by ThaNEWPr0fess0r View Post
I see players do this with any hand that they decide to "go with". For those player who do do (lol) those types of things, I really don't see why they would specifically decide to not do it with a set or AK. It's usually inexperienced players that don't want to have to deal with the stress of having to make a tough decision on different board run out's.

As for it being "one of the worst plays you have ever seen"... You made this hand to ask whether you should call on the turn and river right? That indicates that you were considering folding. I don't really think that we can fault a player for making an aggressive move to win the pot with a bluff and call it the worst move I have ever seen. FWIW, once you 3bet AQo and get this flop with this SPR, there should be almost zero debating in your mind whether or not you should be ever folding of not.

It seems that you are focused on the least important and most trivial part of the hand. Once you check the flop, you can't fold unless both Villains shove, show you their card, and you can confirm you are behind. Pre-flop and the flop should be your focus.
This +1
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Old 05-21-2014, 10:45 AM   #37
ManiacalNit
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Re: Am I a station, or just really good?

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Originally Posted by bulls_horn View Post
Would it be tragic if V had 23 instead of 24? Then maybe you'd be crying "I shoulda bet the flop!"
I am never feeling tragic or crying if a Villain calls my 3Bet OOP with 23 or 24, especially if he takes this line. If he happens to bink his 10% equity after dark shoving the turn, oh well variance happens. I love that checking the flop induces this action.

Another aspect of checking the flop worth noting:
If there are any astute players in the game who can range well and adjust decently, you protect your check back range, making it more difficult for them to reverse float.
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Old 05-21-2014, 11:51 AM   #38
AintNoLimit
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Re: Am I a station, or just really good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaNEWPr0fess0r View Post
I see players do this with any hand that they decide to "go with". For those player who do do (lol) those types of things, I really don't see why they would specifically decide to not do it with a set or AK. It's usually inexperienced players that don't want to have to deal with the stress of having to make a tough decision on different board run out's.

As for it being "one of the worst plays you have ever seen"... You made this hand to ask whether you should call on the turn and river right? That indicates that you were considering folding. I don't really think that we can fault a player for making an aggressive move to win the pot with a bluff and call it the worst move I have ever seen. FWIW, once you 3bet AQo and get this flop with this SPR, there should be almost zero debating in your mind whether or not you should be ever folding of not.

It seems that you are focused on the least important and most trivial part of the hand. Once you check the flop, you can't fold unless both Villains shove, show you their card, and you can confirm you are behind. Pre-flop and the flop should be your focus.






OP, the above is very true. IF in fact we took this line, but didnt know whether you should have (turn and river) then we just played great but got lucky on the strategy decision.
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