this may sound results oriented, but I'm just thinking outside the box. I've lost some big pots with pair flush draw on flop. The standard play is to play these fast against TP since we are usually the favorite. My question: is there a better way to play these against calling fish?

For example, rather than re-raising all-in & the fish calling, wouldn't check/call the flop, and jam the turn if we hit (or check/call the turn, and jam river if we hit on river) be better play? We can still get all the fish's chips, but we also limit our loss in case we don't hit. I know our equity goes down by half if we don't hit on turn, so it is a bit tricky.

I guess people won't respond unless it's really specific, so here goes:

V in early position raises 3xBB. V's stack is 100BB. V is a fishy horrible player who chases and is semi-call-station. He plays any pair very strongly.
Middle position calls. Someone else calls. Hero calls in late position with A7s diamonds. Hero has about 150BB.

Flop comes J74 (2 diamonds). V bets pot-size. The other 2 fold. Hero should raise, or call?

I 3-bet, V calls. Turn is 10 of clubs. V bets pot-size. Hero?

I will often re-raise on flop for fold equity (against a more standard player) and because I'm almost always slightly ahead considering V's range. But, I'm not ahead by much at all (like 52%-48%), so I'll often miss my draw. Considering how bad this player is (and most live players in general), I'm thinking pot-control might be a better play. I can jam on turn &/or river and likely get calls if I hit.

If you can find the fish who will stack off with one pair on a flush board, sure, go ahead and knock yourself out.

In the specific example you posted, though, Vs stack is a bit small to chase. If you stipulate that hitting your A or 7 will be sufficient, then it's probably closer to neutral EV.

Raise against players that can fold pairs and players that can get it in with inferior draws. If a player doesn't have fold equity then don't raise with a draw.

To play devil's advocate:

If you just call, it becomes -EV play in a sense because you're calling bets for like a 26% chance to hit on turn, & 26% to hit on river. Not considering implied odds, essentially any bet amount by V is going to make it -EV.

Any pro-advice would really help.

Truthfully, Grind said it all right here. /thread.

Really, there's no mystical formula here, if your equity plus your fold equity is greater than 50%, then GII.

I appreciate the input, so don't get offended. I know there's no "Mystical Formula" (well actually, there are important formulas, but they're not mystical). I said above that my equity is about 52%, so I'm always ahead. So, when you said "stack is too small for me to chase", it doesn't really make sense since on the flop, I'm favored to win.

I also know what to do against a regular player. I'm asking what to do against a calling fish.

Let me highlight this then, as an answer to your question as to what to do against a calling fish.

I also think you have some odd ideas about equity. You cannot call any size bet OTT simply because you had 52% equity OTF, and therefore you will always have 52% equity if you see it through to the river. That 52% was based on an unknown turn card, now that it is known, your equity has dropped to "just" 26% and you have to refigure your pot odds and implied odds based on that.

Like I said, in your example if you can count on your 7s and your As, that probably gives you just about enough equity (might be plus EV by a bit, or neg EV by a bit) to make the call IF you get his entire stack EVERY time you bink (or at least 36bbs of his remaining 49bbs).

If you are ahead, you want the money in. As alluded to in your original post, you are being results oriented. You will experience variance by playing a hand like this fast, but in the long run you will be ahead simply by way of the extra fold equity you pick up by fast playing.

In your specific hand above, I didn't see what your raise size was. Based on the stack sizes, I would think that you would have raised an amount which would have committed you to the hand considering he only had 100 bb. Hopefully you didn't min raise and fold the turn.

Sorry, but it doesn't seem like you guys read well. Buster, of course I know my equity. It sounds to me like you're getting it confused. It's always +EV because my equity on the flop is 52%! So, like taxman says, it's standard to play this fast. To clarify: I'm not chasing because I'm winning at 52% vs 48% on the flop. Also you're saying I can't call any bet on the flop when I'm a 52% favorite to win. Do you realize what you're saying? It's like saying you can't call a pre-flop bet with JJ if you know V is holding AKs cuz he might spike an A or K on the flop.

Yea, taxman. If you read my posts, I basically said what you just said. I also said I lost some big pots and that I usually re-raise and play these fast, so I don't know where you got the min raise, fold turn stuff. Like I keep saying, I'm just trying to brainstorm with intelligent people to think outside the box for other alternatives when playing against a non-standard player.

Anyways, I'll just PM my friends here to get their input. Thanks for trying.

You're welcome.

Let's test your reading comprehension. Please highlight where I say this.

Hmmm, I can't find this...

Yeah, one of us does, I'm betting it ain't you, though...

AH, BRAH!!!! Bink! That's exactly what I was saying! I thought I couched it soooo mysteriously that no one would be able to figure it out! But you did! Amazing!!! I'm actually saying that in all my posts, and you, you rascal, you were the only person to figure it out.

Yeah, probably best if you plan to ignore or overlook anyone trying to give you honest advice. See, a forum like this works both ways, people have to actually read the advice they are given to benefit from it.

Yeah, I hate when that happens.

Of course there is as there are always alternate ways to play any situation. The reason you play these hands fast is because you're semibluffing. You have a chance to win it uncontested, and you win when you hit. If you're up against a stationy fish, then the bluff aspect goes away, and you're betting for value, reducing your total equity. If your hand is likely best without improvement, and your opponent will pay off, then it doesn't matter: just come out swingin'. If not there is nothing wrong with slowing down and taking a wait and see approach, especially if your mark will still call when you do hit.

The worst case scenario is your stationy fish won't get out when you semibluff, but he has demonstrated he'll fold to a big bet if it's likely a draw came in. That puts you in a RIO situation that could force you to pass.

My min raise discussion was there because you didn't say how much you raised on the flop. It makes a difference.