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All in jamboree???

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08-03-2016 , 05:38 PM

djevans

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 5,045

Hero $300ish and stuck a bit. Has a slightly aggressive image but not out of control.

Villain 1 SB $300 - lady who isn't very good and seems to play weak.

Villain 2 CO $700- older man who will get married to top pair/ good kicker but may fold to a lot of aggression. He is up quite a bit and running well at the moment.

Hero gets dealt J

UTG +2 and makes it $10

Villain 1 calls
Villain 2 calls

K

$32 pot

Villain 1 leads $25
Hero calls
Villain 2 makes it $75
Villain 1 calls
Hero ????

I don't think i'm ever against another flush draw here so at best Villain 2 has a set or AK.

Villain 1 probably has some KQ - KT hand

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08-03-2016 , 05:47 PM

iraisetoomuch

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 37,474

Hate the raise pre flop.
Sizing is bad or the positions is bad, or both.

I'd prolly make the flop $100 the first time around instead of flatting.
Now just call I guess?

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08-03-2016 , 05:49 PM

DTLB

adept

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 904

No shove for me lol. You have $35 invested. Do you really want to ship it on a draw with questionable FE after you just called V1 and V2 raised? What are you repping?

I would need solid reads that both players fold easily to a shove in order to make this play. And if you're eager to shove now, why not just raise the lady in the first place?

As is there's about $200 in the middle and its $50 more to call. Assuming you have all 9 outs, you can call for 4:1 and expect to earn enough if you hit in order to make this call profitable.

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08-03-2016 , 05:58 PM

Reubenr676

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 268

You have to call 50 dollars more to win 150. So you're getting 1:4, which is almost enough to call. However if you brick on the turn then you'll be faced with a jam therefore I think the raise is a fold unless you play high variance poker.

I personally don't like following draws for too much money.

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08-03-2016 , 06:18 PM

Dubey

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,844

I know I jam (I know I jam jam)

meh, this is close. It's probably one of those situations where calling and jamming are both fine. I probably just call though closing the action and getting great odds.

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08-03-2016 , 07:09 PM

jake

adept

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 796

Why are we even considering a shove with a 3rd-nut draw? Why can't one of the other villains be on a better draw? Fold.

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08-03-2016 , 09:37 PM

djevans

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 5,045

Quote:

Originally Posted by jake

Why are we even considering a shove with a 3rd-nut draw? Why can't one of the other villains be on a better draw? Fold.

Cuz jamming has great fold equity in this spot

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08-03-2016 , 09:52 PM

Amanaplan

acanalpanamA

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 5,628

Quote:

Originally Posted by djevans

Cuz jamming has great fold equity in this spot

FE very questionable given flop action on K63s

AP this a Fold - It's far worse than you think taking a naked 3NFD (prob 2NFD here) to the felt as a caller. Back shoving flop just ain't getting through and gets looked up far lighter by hands you'd like to see fold. If called in one spot or both you can easily be dead to running cards.

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08-04-2016 , 01:21 PM

jake

adept

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 796

Quote:

Originally Posted by djevans

Cuz jamming has great fold equity in this spot

V2 is older guy that gets married to top pair good kicker.... and we have great fold equity? On a board that has an obvious FD? I don't know the players involved obviously - but I'm really having a hard time believing typical old guy 1/2 players is folding AK here. Or even KQ? How would you read hero's call/shove line? You could read it that he was trapping V2 .. or you could just think it was fishy.

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08-04-2016 , 02:20 PM

#10

Dubey

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,844

not sure about FE here, but to be fair, smooth call then overshove Is a ridiculously strong line for most villains.

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08-04-2016 , 03:49 PM

#11

sw_emigre

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,671

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubey

smooth call then overshove Is a ridiculously strong line for most villains.

Yeah it would be, but in this spot we need V to both be good enough to level himself ("This is such a fishy line and I think H is a winner so it must be super strong") without being good enough to think, "This is such a fishy line and I think H is a winner so it must be super strong even though this never ever happens ever so it's an obv fish move so I call with TP, heck even QQ".

Neither V as described is even close to this. They're thinking I haz TP+ or NFD, so I'm getting to the river.

Pre was fine. First flop call was fine. Time to shrug-fold.

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08-04-2016 , 04:13 PM

#12

djevans

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 5,045

well I ended up folding but would of won if I jammed.

Turn was 6x Bet call of $100

and river was 2s. check / check

Guy who raised $75 had AK and other villain had KT.

Over heard guy saying that if they over jammed on me, i would of just folded because AK is never good here. Lady would of probably folded too.

$300 is a lot for a recreational player unless they have the nuts.

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08-04-2016 , 07:58 PM

#13

Nice_Guy_Eddie

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,135

Fold. You face too many RIO situations against two players. Someone will almost certainly bet the turn, meaning you need almost 5:1 to draw. You need FE to semibluff and you have almost none. You almost never get villains to fold after a raise and bet-call.

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08-04-2016 , 09:45 PM

#14

jake

adept

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 796

Quote:

Originally Posted by djevans

Over heard guy saying that if they over jammed on me, i would of just folded because AK is never good here. Lady would of probably folded too.

We could probably do a whole thread on the weak correlation of what poker players say they would do - vs. what they actually would do.

You made a good read, and made the right play. Well done.

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