1/3 NL

Newish table this is about the third orbit. I've played two hands, both were very standard lines and I took down both without showing down. One was on a cbet other when I raised a 1/4 pot donk bet after raising preflop with 99 on a K73hh board. The table is full of suuuper fish limpers/stations/weak tight and one decent younger player (V in this hand). V and I are position neutral and I figured there wouldn't be a ton of action between us given the table dynamics and the ridiculous free roll here, but that didn't work out lol, anyway... on to the hand.

Villain: Is definitely a thinking player, has played two hands so far, one was a raise from EPish to 15 (slightly higher than typical for this table seeing as how almost every hand is limped 6 ways to the flop) got 3 callers, flop came AKx and he didn't c-bet, just C/F. Other hand he raised 55 from the CO and got 4 callers, flopped a set, cbet and stacked someone who raised him. ($ covers hero)

Hero: Told you a bit about my image here, I'm I guess well known in my card room as a LAG player, but I really only have this reputation because that's how I typically play against fish, once I've figured out their board texture skills aren't that great. Against unknown's or a table of regulars I typically play TAG straight up. ($380)

Hero is dealt AK

Hand:
1 fold
UTG+1 calls
Hero raises to 21 in UTG+2
4 folds
BTN (V) raises to 63
3 folds
Hero?

With his sizing and stacks, should I be 4-betting here?

edit: just wanted to mention there is more to the hand, just want to see what people are thinking here.

no, fold.

If villain is actually any good, he knows your EP range is going to be pretty tight here. Without a better read on his range and having to play OOP, I just fold.

This is a situation that could change radically with more information. If he is doing the same as you and just avoiding the other decent player, his range could be as tight as AK/QQ+ here and it's a trivial fold. If he likes to steal from the button and could be much wider then it's a call or even a raise. With no other information then he seems decent, I'm defaulting to range like AQs/AKo/JJ+ where calling is a toss up and it will be hard to make money post flop.

Assuming you have the bankroll to withstand variance... Jam it in.

Is Villain aware of your image? If so, what type of range does he 3b with here?

Even if he isn't aware of your image does he 3b his BTN a lot?

Lets work on his range factoring in the metagame of your image and I think an answer will be pretty apparent.

I don't know if I'm jamming bc of stack sizes. But I don't really want to play OOP without the initiative. I'm cool with 4!ing here.

What is V's 3!ing range? If it's JJ+, AKs/AKo, AQs/AQo...how do you think our hand looks against this range? Is it possible that he's wider here, if so what effect does this have on our decision? Tighter, same question? Answering these questions will lead you to what you seek.


Bc F4O said so....

Call. You are still 100bb deep of you call Vs 3 bet. Just play a flop...

We are at 126bb to start the hand... 105bb after the 3!. I don't mind mashing ~100 bigs with AKs because I think it folds hands that beat us often enough, and even when we do get called by QQ/JJ it's not like we are some big dog. Sure there are some hands in his 3! range that we beat, but without reads that he is some big spew box that is stacking off and 3!'ing light, I don't mind folding out AQ when he has it. It's such a small portion of his range. That is barring some read he 3!'s light, which we don't have.

Ha villain seen you make big lay downs before? Or had he seen you open sc type hands from ep?

Depending on the answer this could be a shove, but I think a shove allows villian to play pretty perfectly and really only make mistakes with the bottom of his range.

I don't think a call is the right play at all either.

In this spot I fold.

I'm not a fan of AK lately. Maybe I'm doing something wrong though if most are shoving this?

Bruh! Ask anyone, AK is my kryptonite hand. Not sure why I am shoving!!! LOL. But I'm jamming it in. I think we have some good FE, and ldo blockers to AA/KK.

I think you have your answer in your own reads. Trust it...fold!

whatever you do don't call.

Shyt, thought it was 1/2, need to use my good eye. Yeah, sitting 100 bigs after the 3!, I'm cool with jamming.

Fwiw I think jam>>>fold>>>>call

Bc F4O said so....

Yeah, this.

OP, you need to be playing villain's cards as well as your own.

What do you think he has? What do you think he continues with if you raise?

Flatting, btw, is typically the worst option here unless you have a super duper read on how villain plays poflop and can win when you miss the flop.

Do people not read the entire HH anymore?

Cliffs: Hero has played two hands thus far. Villain has played two hands thus far. there hasn't been any iso-raising light, 3betting buttons, etc

This. I saw a few people saying just call and see a flop. Don't listen to then.

This is either a 4b/gii or a fold depending on the villain. Although his perfect 3x 3bet could be a tell.

If you were about 50-70BBs deeper I would be happy here to do a 4bet/fold if jammed on. Here its pretty close to jam/fold, again depending on your willingness to gamble.

At your stack sizes and not many reads if he's 3betting light and if he understands your a thinking player at a table of fish then he is prob just playing straight forward... Eh I could find a fold and just going at the other fish at the table. Again though never flatting this.

Jam ~= fold >>>>>>>> call.

Yeah meant to write this too. Calling is AIDS

This.

And this.

Give us what you perceive his 3 bet range is here.

Against avg Tag 3 bet range on button I leaning toward 4bet. Definitely don't like flatting unless we are going to be able to win with air once in awhile.

I can't invent a range for the OP.

Did you read the entire op? It's the third orbit at a new table. So they've seen maybe 25 hands.

Hero also claims to be a reg and known to be a LAG in the room...no similar mention is made of villain

If we can agree this is a raise or fold spot, and there is a similar EV either way, I think the decision is essentially based on how you're going to approach this game/table from a meta POV.

Do you want to establish that you're capable of 4-bet shoving AK vs. this kid? Would that improve the future dynamic between you and him—or you and the rest of the table?

Do you want to lay it down and avoid this guy in close spots, focusing your efforts on making the most money possible from the horrible players at the table?