My regular 1/2 home game playing 9 handed, pretty loose table and kind of a party atmosphere, this night in particular stacks seem to be flying in left and right.

Hero (UTG+2) (stack 215) has a pretty tight aggressive image, only been at the table an hour or so and shown down twice in 3 bet pots, won one with k high straight and lost one set over set. Both Vs know hero's image pretty good.

V1 (UTG) (stack 250) 1 is a fish, no other way to put it, bought in short stack for 50 bucks and has ran good, sucked out a couple times to make straights and flushes and ran his stack up and is in a cheery mood getting pretty loose pre-flop calling all raises to get in every hand and chasing down every draw. Loves to bluff with air and show when he doesn't hit. Has done it twice on the turn in the last 30 minutes. Never seen a 3 or 4 bet from him.

V2 (MP) (stack 150) is tight aggressive, normally likes to raise to isolate preflop but never seen her three-bet, and my read is that her three-bet calling range is pretty slim against hero. Never seen a 3 or 4 bet from her.

OTTH

V1 opens for $6 utg, hero looks down at AsKs in utg+1 and 3-bets to $17, folds to V2 in MP who calls and it folds around back to V1 who calls as well.

flop ($54) - Kd 6h 3c

V1 ships in his remaining $233

Hero?

Not folding this. Hard to put V1 on very many hands that beat us. 2pr hands are likely to be limped preflop rather than raised. Same for 66/33. It's certainly possible we're beat, but I think worse Kx or random nonsense are more likely

Call. I don't know why this is a tough spot.

Don't view it as a snap call because:

- We've only seen V1 bluff on turn scare cards when there was a lack of action on the flop, never into a pfr.

- V1 has been more of a calling station than maniac, and he knows my image pretty well, as well as V2's image. I'm pretty sure he knows one of us has a hand we can call with.

- Can't see V2 calling an EP 3-bet in MP with anything but AA, KK, QQ and AK. I feel like V2 is calling all day here with the price she gets if we call.

If that is V2's range, we might as well fold. She should only ever fold QQ.

This really is read-dependent, though. If you think V1 is hoping you'll call w/ AA or AK, it's a fold. If it would tilt you to lose to V1, it's a fold.

If he's a true fish who will do this with hands that lose to AK, it's a call.

The problem with these two statements is that they contradict each other. Calling stations don't bluff scare cards. To me it sounds like you need to tighten up your reads.

That's a pretty tight range for V2, and you're also basically saying that V2 never 4-bets with AA or KK, which probably isn't true. Also, V2 is not priced in. They are either calling because they have the best hand by far or they're folding because they're hopelessly behind (QQ).

I think you need to work on your ranges as well.

I'm about 90 percent sure that's V2's range. Definitely more worried about showing down with V2's range if she calls than V1's range, and her range gets a great price if we call.

As far as V1 goes, hes definitely a fish, but not a maniac fish, more of calling station that had some run good and is just in a great mood and we can tell he's enjoying gambling. Read at the time was his range is more weighted towards sets and worse kings, but a small percentage of bluffs with air in there as well.

Not worried about tilting due to getting stacked by V1, we can get right back in and isolate and bet for value all night long against him and get calls, he'll be here for hours and has plenty of money. But that's obviously no reason to ship him 100 bbs without thinking this out.

I think your right on both counts and I appreciate the feedback. I've only recently started getting serious about poker and studying more about it, got a long way to go.

As mentioned, your ranges are way off imo. You didn't even make it 3x with your "isolation" raise. V2 has way more QQ JJ TT 99 88 77 than AA/AK/KK, all of which you (and the board) block (1 combo of KK left and 3 combos of AA). Unless you have seen V2 consistently flat a 3b preflop with AA/KK, there is very little reason to believe V2 has these hands.

Don’t really understand why there’s concern about giving V2 a “great price.” You really think V2 would fold the parts of her range that would beat us if the “price” wasn’t great...?

As played call.

We have one of the best hands we can possible have in this spot. Call...


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this is where the fat value is in poker

Then as Javanewt pointed out, you don't need to make a thread about this hand. It is a clear fold.

One of the skills that helps in poker is deductive reasoning. It is one reason this website is named "2+2". What people are telling you is that you are treating each street from scratch in terms of your assumptions and not combining what you learned from the previous round of betting to narrow ranges.

Let's just look at this hand from V1"s perspective. Why would someone on a super dry board make a hugh overbet on the flop before the pfr acts? If he has a set, wouldn't he want you to make a cbet first? You've only shown down that session a straight and a set. Many people make this bet to get folds.

While my online database is fairly old, I was good about 60% of the time when calling with TPTK in this situation. I haven't noticed much of a change over time. You aren't going to win everytime, but it is +EV to call this unless you really do know the range. But as was pointed out above, if you did, you don't have to make this thread.

You are partially correct, there is probably JJ & TT in her range, but thats it. Have seen V2 flat a 3b preflop with AA KK QQ AKs many times.

Correct, at the time were thinking about splitting equity two ways with V1s range which is wide, vs splitting equity three ways to include V2s preflop 3-bet calling range. But thats probably not the best way to think about it. If she calls she has us beat anyways.

how many times had you seen v1 overbet bluff with air? If it was greater than 0 I call here and hope to suck out on Kx6x...

I wouldn't worry too much about v2, just IME you see fish here with random two pair/ sets that figure that you wont fold AK...from a MDF perspective if you have a very tight 3-bet range (say AA-QQ,AK,AxQx) (you did 3-bet UTG) you prob can fold AK here and call with AA-KK to the large overbet and not be theoretically exploited.

Results:

Hero calls
V2 folds

Board runs out Ac 8d

V2 shows 6s 6d for flopped set

**V1 shows 6s 6d for flopped set**

I'd make it 24 pre in 1/2 as a 3!

Oh, it was V1. Ok, if he/she was truly a fish I actually fold there and put them on K6 lol.

Then you take a note that V1 is an idiot who bets in accordance with the strength of their hand without regard to the pot size. It's an incredibly exploitable play.

Gotta lose that money brah. Make it more pre.