AKs OOP in big 3-way pot - Page 2 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Um, no it doesn't. This is patently absurd. Winning an additional bet is always better than winning the existing pot.

We get more EV when AQ suited calls us, not when it folds. Even when AQ suited is getting proper odds. Even when another hand has us both beat.

It's mind boggling that anyone would post something like that.

AQ is not what Kyanto meant, from my reading of his post. He meant medium PPs and non-dominated overcards that are not calling unless they improve to beat us. 120 left and pot of 91 is a shove here to try and realize any fold equity / get called by dominated Ax.

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07-11-2016 , 09:27 AM

#27

bodybuilder32

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,423

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyanto

Thing is if we check and they shove, we get roughly 1:2 (33%) pot odds. Which makes it a call with our equity. So we get it in anyways. So the only question is how we can get most EV. And folding out other hands gives us most. Don't even just think about a pair. If they have QJ and the flop checks through to reveal a J on the turn it's a disaster for us, because we could have denied that equity against us very easily.

Basically, we can deny equity freely because even if we get called by better hands, we're in good shape. So we're not risking anything here by shoving.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using 2+2 Forums

Good post, thanks.

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07-11-2016 , 09:13 PM

#28

Ray Zee

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,916

often you will drive out the best hand by shoving here. and thats a giant win for you.
anyone that thinks all paired hands will call arent in real life. all to often players fold all sorts of hands rather than go all in. thats just a fact of poker. people are adverse to go broke and make terrible mistakes trying to avoid it.

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07-11-2016 , 09:14 PM

#29

Ray Zee

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,916

and my comment about so what if a pair calls you. you arent a big dog and thats just what you want the caller to have if he does call you as it isnt a disaster.

of course if you knew he had a pair and would call you wouldnt bet.

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07-12-2016 , 07:06 AM

#30

BadlyBeaten

banned

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,300

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrybe

AQ is not what Kyanto meant, from my reading of his post. He meant medium PPs and non-dominated overcards that are not calling unless they improve to beat us.

We want calls from non-dominated overcards A LOT MORE than from Ax. JTs is in a horrible spot here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrybe

120 left and pot of 91 is a shove here to try and realize any fold equity / get called by dominated Ax.

This is a non-sequitur. The fallacy should be made clear by OP's embarrassment that the other players knew what he had. To a great extent, a shove is polarizing and transparent, and takes all the play out of the hand. Just tattoo 'ABC' on your forehead.

I think most people commenting here are completely disregarding the fact that we are multi-way, not HU.

Last edited by BadlyBeaten; 07-12-2016 at 07:20 AM.

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07-12-2016 , 08:30 AM

#31

scrybe

adept

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 956

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadlyBeaten

We want calls from non-dominated overcards A LOT MORE than from Ax. JTs is in a horrible spot here.

We aren't getting calls from non-dominated overcards. We can choose to fold them now or let them see the turn for free, at which point they are again not calling unless they improve.

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07-12-2016 , 08:40 AM

#32

scrybe

adept

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 956

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadlyBeaten

Nah, it's just the right play. You can bet this flop small for value vs JT all day if that's what your Howard Lederer theory book tells you... I'll stop feeding now. Cya.

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