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AKs facing 4 bet shove and overcall pre AKs facing 4 bet shove and overcall pre

08-04-2018 , 09:31 PM
Another AK hand, but with a few wrinkles.
1-3 $500 buy-in, Hero, V1 and V2 are all 60's WM.
V1 ($350) in CO is a tourney player who is loose for cash game.
V2 ($500) is unknown to me, and this is only my second orbit at the table.
Hero ($420) straddles from Button to 6$. (Note: the action begins with UTG on button straddle)
Folded to V1 in CO who makes it $36, a 6x bet.
Hero on button 3 Bets to $100 with AdKd.
V2 in BB goes shoves all-in for $414 effective.
V1 calls with minimal tanking.
There is now an effective $414 + $350 = $865 in the pot and $314 to call.
Does anyone find a fold?
Does being suited make a difference here?
How does the overcall of V1 affect my decision?
Does my 3 betting from the button affect V2s decision to shove? I am not in my 20's with a baseball cap.
Again, I have no reads on V2, just a 60s WM.
AKs facing 4 bet shove and overcall pre Quote
08-04-2018 , 09:40 PM
If we know both V yes we can get away from this hand.
AKs facing 4 bet shove and overcall pre Quote
08-04-2018 , 09:57 PM
Love a button straddle!

Prob fold with the cold 4!

V1 looks like QQ
AKs facing 4 bet shove and overcall pre Quote
08-04-2018 , 09:59 PM
Easy fold for me vs so much action.
AKs facing 4 bet shove and overcall pre Quote
08-05-2018 , 01:57 AM
There's a math error in your post. It's actually 314 (maybe should be 320, but this isn't what I'm talking about) to call to win 414+350+100 = 965. You forgot to include your $100 3bet in the pot. Your odds are almost exactly 3:1, so you need 25% equity.

Playing around with equilab, I was surprised to see how badly AKs fares in this spot. The main reason is - which is obvious in retrospect - that if either of the other players has AK, you're doing terribly. You lose over half the time and chop the vast majority of the remainder. The best scenario for you would be they both have a pair worse than KK, but of course, if one person has QQ, the other person almost never has QQ!

Really interesting spot and surprised I've never thought about it before. Thanks OP!

ETA: In case it's not clear, I'm advising fold.
AKs facing 4 bet shove and overcall pre Quote
08-05-2018 , 09:27 AM
Thanks for everyone's input, and I did fold after tanking a bit. Of course, the results went the other direction as both Vs had the absolute weakest hand in their probable ranges. V2 4 bet shoved with QQ, V1 called all in with JJ, and an Ace hit the flop. Oh well, next hand.
AKs facing 4 bet shove and overcall pre Quote
08-05-2018 , 11:28 AM
@allthecheese what ranges did you put the villains on?
AKs facing 4 bet shove and overcall pre Quote
08-05-2018 , 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabloid
@allthecheese what ranges did you put the villains on?
I tried a bunch of different ranges, but probably the widest was giving them both JJ+/AK. We had 24% equity in that case.
AKs facing 4 bet shove and overcall pre Quote
08-05-2018 , 01:57 PM
Ah, yeah that makes sense. Since V1 called with some tanking I didn’t put him on AK. But that’s a possibility. And I also added TT to the shove since he is a tournament player and they shove slightly wider. Then you get about the right equity. I would still fold though.
AKs facing 4 bet shove and overcall pre Quote
08-05-2018 , 01:58 PM
Easy fold for me against an unknown 60 yo man given the stack sizes in this situation.
AKs facing 4 bet shove and overcall pre Quote

      
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