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AKs all in pre? AKs all in pre?

05-15-2014 , 02:13 PM
1/2 Home game that been running for a couple of years so lots of history with Vs. Game is very loose preflop with little to no 3 betting. When there is a 3 bet $2 limpers will call up to $50 just to see a flop.

V1 - SB(120) late 30's has learned to bet bigger $17 to $20 when opening pots because you will be called. He will open light from early position with JTo but rarely 3 bets in or out of position.

V2 - MP(160) mid 40's will play any connected and any suited cards by either over limping, calling a raise or raising if he is opening. Plays very aggro post and can 3 barrel pot size bets with air or any draw. Very sticky post with any piece of the board if someone else has the betting lead. Most players buy-in for $200 he buys in for $300 just to have table covered early. Lost couple of hands to drop down to 160.

Hero - BU(250) early 50's viewed as winning LAG. Although most view him as having ATC IP that is far from the truth. Because of this image is called down lightly. Value betting is my bread and butter in this game.

Folds to V2 who raises to $11 (he likes to raise prime number).

Hero looks at AK. 3 bet IP with A/Ks is about 80/20. This time just calls because it's still early in the night.

V1 3 bets to $45. V2 calls. Pot ($103).

Hero tanks realizing V1 is committed with $75 behind and V2 would be getting odds to call shove after V1 calls.

Hero, shove, call, fold?
AKs all in pre? Quote
05-15-2014 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LetMePlay
V1 - ... He will open light from early position with JTo but rarely 3 bets in or out of position.
What is the range of V1 here? This will basically tell you whether to fold or continue. The way you have described the game overall, I suspect you cannot fold.

You should probably shove. That is, unless the villains are willing to make huge mistakes on the flop, like:

"FLOP AT3 rainbow. Checks to Hero who shoves, both villains call. V1 shows QJ, V2 shows 99."

If the Villains are willing to make terrible plays postflop, then you can just call and see if you hit your hand. Otherwise, shove.
AKs all in pre? Quote
05-15-2014 , 02:29 PM
Grunch.

Shoving is fine here IMO since the stacks are so shallow. I would have probably 3bet the first time around though, given the description of Villain.

Whether this is the first or last hand of the night probably shouldn't have too much effect on your decision.

Also, lol @ the prime number thing.
AKs all in pre? Quote
05-15-2014 , 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LetMePlay

Hero looks at AK. 3 bet IP with A/Ks is about 80/20. This time just calls because it's still early in the night.
I don't think this should just be a random 3bet 80% of the time / how am I feeling today / kinda thing. It should be more based on who opened is he a wide opener a fish or a nit.

I would hardly ever flat AK suited on the button after one opener.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LetMePlay
V1 - SB(120) late 30's has learned to bet bigger $17 to $20 when opening pots because you will be called. He will open light from early position with JTo but rarely 3 bets in or out of position.
Here is the problem. we are probably wb
AKs all in pre? Quote
05-15-2014 , 03:52 PM
With these stack sizes I think we are close to a call if both Vs call our shove.

As played im probably folding this, its just too thin.
AKs all in pre? Quote
05-15-2014 , 11:53 PM
Never 3 bets ip or oop. So now its up to whether he 3 bets JJ and AK. If you think he does then shipit.

And dont flat pre because its early. Your graph at end of year wont be showing what time of day it was.
AKs all in pre? Quote
05-16-2014 , 02:54 AM
Lol I think I read somewhere, maybe in one of Harrington's books that he would literally look at his watch to determine if he calls/raises since he would do each a certain % of the time.

O It's 6:30 I think I'll flat

Anyway you said this guy rarely 3bets. If that's the case, fold

3bet the loose guy pre every time with this
AKs all in pre? Quote
05-16-2014 , 02:59 AM
If we 3bet to 40 and he ships, getting a little better than 2:1 we can call if we can put QQ in his range along with AA KK. But that might be too optimistic. Ppl who rarely 3bet are usually not 4bet shipping QQ. So you can 3bet to 35 and fold comfortably to a ship from the tight guy
AKs all in pre? Quote
05-16-2014 , 02:31 PM
Maybe poor choice of words but the 80/20 3 bet is more for balance/deception then it being early in the session. If there were more limpers in front of V2 or some calls behind I would have 3 bet 100%. Only the blinds were left and V2 is aggro enough to stack off with air if he senses weakness.

As for V1, he will open light but won't 3 bet light. There can be 3 or more sessions where he won't 3 bet at all (avg sessions run about 10 hrs). The game plays pretty loose passive preflop so it being early was more about there being time to find spots to build a stack without flipping early in the session.

AP hero tank folded figuring on finding a better spot. Flop was A/T/3r. V1 shipped the $75 and V2 folded. I asked V1 if he beat my ace (didn't say AK) and he said yes.

This same session we had a guy shove AK 4 times into 3 bet pots for stacks between $150-$250. He lost 3 of them. That is not to say I'm looking at it by results just an observation as to the way the game plays. He lost to QQ/AA/AQ and won against QQ. I looked at the ranges a couple of different ways and figured that it was go with your gut situation.
AKs all in pre? Quote
05-17-2014 , 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmo0th10
Lol I think I read somewhere, maybe in one of Harrington's books that he would literally look at his watch to determine if he calls/raises since he would do each a certain % of the time.

O It's 6:30 I think I'll flat
It was Harrington (he would look at the second hand) and the point was to randomize your actions when you are playing with regulars that know your game so that they can't get a great read on your actions.

Since Hero is likely playing against people that don't really study his game very well, he should 3-bet this 100% of the time pre.
AKs all in pre? Quote
05-17-2014 , 05:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LetMePlay
1/2 Home game that been running for a couple of years so lots of history with Vs. Game is very loose preflop with little to no 3 betting. When there is a 3 bet $2 limpers will call up to $50 just to see a flop.

V1 - SB(120) late 30's has learned to bet bigger $17 to $20 when opening pots because you will be called. He will open light from early position with JTo but rarely 3 bets in or out of position.

V2 - MP(160) mid 40's will play any connected and any suited cards by either over limping, calling a raise or raising if he is opening. Plays very aggro post and can 3 barrel pot size bets with air or any draw. Very sticky post with any piece of the board if someone else has the betting lead. Most players buy-in for $200 he buys in for $300 just to have table covered early. Lost couple of hands to drop down to 160.

Hero - BU(250) early 50's viewed as winning LAG. Although most view him as having ATC IP that is far from the truth. Because of this image is called down lightly. Value betting is my bread and butter in this game.

Folds to V2 who raises to $11 (he likes to raise prime number).

Hero looks at AK. 3 bet IP with A/Ks is about 80/20. This time just calls because it's still early in the night.

V1 3 bets to $45. V2 calls. Pot ($103).

Hero tanks realizing V1 is committed with $75 behind and V2 would be getting odds to call shove after V1 calls.

Hero, shove, call, fold?
V1 doesn t 3bet often oop. Call and see the flop is the best option in my opinion.
AKs all in pre? Quote

      
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