Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-20-2018, 05:25 AM   #1
krilleater
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 391
AKs at 1/3

Here's an AK hand where I'd love some feedback.

Hero is $450 and effective stack. My image is pretty poor (bad LAG) as I've been losing a lot this session.

V1 is a loose passive, no other reads.

V2 is a mediocre LAG who plays too many hands.

Preflop: hero opens to $30 in MP, V2 calls in CO and V1 calls from BB.

The game is especially loose tonight so I've been sizing up my pre-flop raises. $10 raises are getting called by the whole table and even $20 is called in 5 places. As is, 2 callers seems like a solid result.

Flop ($90): 3cJc4s

V1 checks, I bet $60 and only V2 calls.

I assumed a c-bet takes this down a fair amount. Obviously a J is never folding, but I can definitely get a fold out of 5s–Js. Plus there are draws I'm actually ahead of.

Turn ($210): Ks

I bet $170, V2 calls.

Now that I've hit a pair I expect to be ahead most of the time and there are now 2 flush draws and two straight draws available.

River ($550): Ah

Hero? Obviously never folding given SPR, but I'm wondering if shoving my last $200 (looking for a call from worse 2 pair) or checking to let him bluff at it with missed draws is better.

Thoughts on all streets appreciated.

Last edited by krilleater; 12-20-2018 at 05:30 AM.
krilleater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2018, 06:05 AM   #2
Minatorr
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 4,023
Re: AKs at 1/3

Std raise size is 10x pre?

Flop is fine but given relatively dry board (not too many straight draws) i just 1/2 or $40, but 2/3 is fine if u wanna bet really polar on this board (doesnt seen like u are though)

Turn is std.

River generally i like a jam but vs a LAG who plays too many hands and may take a check as the green light to shove, i check. A bunch of straight draws bust, both FDs brick, if he has two pair he is snap shoving this river so you dont lose any value. If you shove he probably folds Jx anyway unless he’s a donk.
Minatorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2018, 06:57 AM   #3
wait
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,116
Re: AKs at 1/3

Do you have AKc or AKd?
wait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2018, 09:05 AM   #4
MikeStarr
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,313
Re: AKs at 1/3

I think this is the first time Ive seen someone call themselves a bad LAG. If that's really your image, just jam your chips in.
MikeStarr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2018, 10:35 AM   #5
mikko
veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,740
Re: AKs at 1/3

Flop sizing is to big. Should have 40% ish fold equity vs 2 opponents as their ranges contain a lot of Jacks. Plus I think we will see a lot of calls from 66-1010 and flush draws. Bet 1/2 pot for instant profit.

Turn : good

River: Ace hits a lot of their flush draws. Doubt they bluff enough of the rest. So going to stick the rest in.

I assume you have AdKd?
mikko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2018, 11:03 AM   #6
mdelore
adept
 
mdelore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,138
Re: AKs at 1/3

Just put the rest in on the river
mdelore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2018, 02:04 PM   #7
notluck
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 292
Re: AKs at 1/3

Shove. Your shove is $250 into $550. If he has middling pairs, he isn't bluffing them. You might get looked up by Ks and someone binking an A on the river.
notluck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2018, 03:20 PM   #8
aftrglw
grinder
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 464
Re: AKs at 1/3

I think it's all fine. I agree with everyone else on shoving the river, I don't think there's much chance of him bluffing at it with you only having 200 left behind. Well played.
aftrglw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2018, 04:16 PM   #9
BigEyedFish
enthusiast
 
BigEyedFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: nitty 1/2 tables
Posts: 91
AKs at 1/3

With given SPRís and what is probably the best hand I donít think shoving your stack for a half psb can ever be that bad.

Plenty of hands that can snap you off AJ/KJ and other random 2p. He can also get sticky with a NFD that paired the river if heís really that bad
BigEyedFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2018, 04:26 PM   #10
WereBeer
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,255
Re: AKs at 1/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
I think this is the first time Ive seen someone call themselves a bad LAG. If that's really your image, just jam your chips in.
This. Kudos to you OP. Agree with jamming.
WereBeer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2018, 04:28 PM   #11
Amanaplan
acanalpanamA
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Getting There
Posts: 3,876
Re: AKs at 1/3

Pre and flop are total spew. You are taking flop down near never. Normally you’re losing $90 on this hand, but you just happened to get the nut runout. AP just shove riv, too many FDs that paired up that will check back always but call sometimes.
Amanaplan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2018, 05:37 PM   #12
adrianpk
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 287
Re: AKs at 1/3

I'd definetly be 40$ flop bet. Keeps villains range a little wider and keeps his draw type hands plus weak Js in his range often. If it is a looser game I'd much rather size smaller.

Once we start sizing 70%+ and villains calling 2 streets, we have to wonder if we're ahead. imo you got there on the river and we were down the whole way.

AP jam rest in there
adrianpk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2018, 12:24 AM   #13
WereBeer
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 8,255
Re: AKs at 1/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan View Post
Pre and flop are total spew. You are taking flop down near never. Normally youíre losing $90 on this hand, but you just happened to get the nut runout. AP just shove riv, too many FDs that paired up that will check back always but call sometimes.
How is pre spew?
WereBeer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2018, 01:39 AM   #14
Minatorr
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 4,023
Re: AKs at 1/3

Not sure why jamming river to get value from 2 worse two pairs is a reason to shove, he’s shoving that anyway.

Even vs a bad LAG think most players are just folding underpairs to Jx almost always and Jx at a relatively high frequency.

Vs a LAG he can have a lot of missed draws here so personally think checking does a little better, he might even value shove AJ/Axss/Axcc

Might even turn 54cc into a bluff but no way he is calling a shove
Minatorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2018, 01:59 AM   #15
hyperknit
adept
 
hyperknit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 990
Re: AKs at 1/3

Snap shove
hyperknit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2018, 02:05 AM   #16
krilleater
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 391
Re: AKs at 1/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
Std raise size is 10x pre?

Flop is fine but given relatively dry board (not too many straight draws) i just 1/2 or $40, but 2/3 is fine if u wanna bet really polar on this board (doesnt seen like u are though)

Turn is std.

River generally i like a jam but vs a LAG who plays too many hands and may take a check as the green light to shove, i check. A bunch of straight draws bust, both FDs brick, if he has two pair he is snap shoving this river so you dont lose any value. If you shove he probably folds Jx anyway unless heís a donk.
Not everyone is raising 10x, but I am with everything I decide to raise considering anything less is getting called ~5 places. Average stack is well over $800.

It seems like everyone is saying they prefer $40, which somewhat surprises me. There is at least a flush draw and a straight draw (LAG is capable of calling 56s from CO). Just to be clear, we'd also used this 1/2 sizing with non-club overpairs? This is a reg-infested game where at least a semblance of balance is important.

Also, some context: smaller 1/2 c-bets were getting essentially zero respect. Ex. I c-bet 1/2 pot with AA on a J82r board and got called by 55 (of course they turned a set).

Quote:
Originally Posted by wait View Post
Do you have AKc or AKd?
AKdd

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
I think this is the first time Ive seen someone call themselves a bad LAG. If that's really your image, just jam your chips in.
I'm normally mediocre, but my image was particularly bad this session after losing two buy-ins to sets and truthfully playing a bit tilted after that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan View Post
Pre and flop are total spew. You are taking flop down near never. Normally youíre losing $90 on this hand, but you just happened to get the nut runout. AP just shove riv, too many FDs that paired up that will check back always but call sometimes.
How on earth is pre spew? What would you do differently?

I guess I don't need to c-bet this 100%, but against 2 players I expected to take it down at least some of the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianpk View Post
I'd definetly be 40$ flop bet. Keeps villains range a little wider and keeps his draw type hands plus weak Js in his range often. If it is a looser game I'd much rather size smaller.

Once we start sizing 70%+ and villains calling 2 streets, we have to wonder if we're ahead. imo you got there on the river and we were down the whole way.

AP jam rest in there
The only hands we overtook on the river were 34 and KJ, and I'd expect sets to raise a fair amount of the time.

It's a good point that the A hit a fair number of their flush draws which they'd check back (thinking they have showdown value) but might crying call a shove. So I can see a shove doing better here in the long run.

Probably the main hands I'd get bluffs from are 56cc or 67cc (hands like that). In retrospect, I prefer shoving considering he has more pairs than bluffs by this river.
krilleater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2018, 07:32 AM   #17
mikko
veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,740
Re: AKs at 1/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
Not sure why jamming river to get value from 2 worse two pairs is a reason to shove, heís shoving that anyway.

Even vs a bad LAG think most players are just folding underpairs to Jx almost always and Jx at a relatively high frequency.

Vs a LAG he can have a lot of missed draws here so personally think checking does a little better, he might even value shove AJ/Axss/Axcc

Might even turn 54cc into a bluff but no way he is calling a shove
Most of this is completely wrong with bad loose image.

Guys seem to lock up on rivers. Not bluffing enough, definitely not value betting this enough because they are scared. They have no idea what the crazy lag was betting.

I would expect villain to actually bluff at higher rate than bet Ax. Just because of villain is also a lag.

Expect to lose value from a ton of hero calls.
mikko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2018, 08:19 AM   #18
wait
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,116
Re: AKs at 1/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
Not sure why jamming river to get value from 2 worse two pairs is a reason to shove, heís shoving that anyway.

Even vs a bad LAG think most players are just folding underpairs to Jx almost always and Jx at a relatively high frequency.

Vs a LAG he can have a lot of missed draws here so personally think checking does a little better, he might even value shove AJ/Axss/Axcc

Might even turn 54cc into a bluff but no way he is calling a shove
Trying too hard to be cool.
wait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2018, 08:51 AM   #19
Chicagodude
veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,417
Re: AKs at 1/3

With my image, bet $150. With your image shove away son.
Chicagodude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2018, 10:04 AM   #20
Amanaplan
acanalpanamA
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Getting There
Posts: 3,876
Re: AKs at 1/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBeer View Post
How is pre spew?
Canít open to 30 and the reasons OP gave for doing so are silly.
Amanaplan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2018, 10:33 AM   #21
GuitarDean
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 229
Re: AKs at 1/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan View Post
Can’t open to 30 and the reasons OP gave for doing so are silly.
Why?

If the table is so loose that $20 opens are getting called in 5 places, why not open to $30 with a premium hand? If opening 10X though, you do need to tighten up significantly and limp/call or even fold hands that you normally would open 4X, 5X with. A 10X open trying to get it heads up with AT or KJ would be 100% spewy; but you don't want to size down with strong but not premium hands because that would make your hands way too obvious; I would limp/call with weaker suited aces and suited broadways that play well multi-way, and fold strong but not premium off-suit broadways unless folded around to me in LP since they play poorly multi-way. But AK is way strong enough to go for a big open at a table like this.

Although I struggle to see how such a table is reg-infested. Maybe bad-reg-infested...

As played, I think the flop cbet is fine, and I would definitely shove OTR. The 10X open should be cutting out hands that could flop a straight draw, leaving just the FD and J between 2 players to call you with. I agree that a cbet takes this a decent percentage of time. OTR, we have only a 1/2 PSB left. That plus our bad LAG image makes it fairly like to get called, while the same 1/2 pot stack makes it less likely that villain will try to bluff with a busted draw.
GuitarDean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2018, 11:04 AM   #22
mikko
veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,740
Re: AKs at 1/3

Always been games that are wild going 5-6 ways with 8x opens. But for some reason it seems to be an epidemic lately.

Can't even remember a game in last 2 months that hasn't turned into bingo hour for a good portion of it. Lack of 3betting and squeezing is major cause of it.

$70-100 preflop pots in my 1/2 game has been the standard last few seasions. Doesn't seem to matter who is in lineup.
mikko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2018, 01:40 PM   #23
krilleater
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 391
Re: AKs at 1/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan View Post
Can’t open to 30 and the reasons OP gave for doing so are silly.
You're just arbitrarily deciding that this is "too much" without any reasoning or thought—sounds like you're the silly idiot.

If I can open to $30 with strong hands and get callers, why on earth should *not*?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarDean View Post
If the table is so loose that $20 opens are getting called in 5 places, why not open to $30 with a premium hand? If opening 10X though, you do need to tighten up significantly and limp/call or even fold hands that you normally would open 4X, 5X with. A 10X open trying to get it heads up with AT or KJ would be 100% spewy; but you don't want to size down with strong but not premium hands because that would make your hands way too obvious; I would limp/call with weaker suited aces and suited broadways that play well multi-way, and fold strong but not premium off-suit broadways unless folded around to me in LP since they play poorly multi-way. But AK is way strong enough to go for a big open at a table like this.

Although I struggle to see how such a table is reg-infested. Maybe bad-reg-infested...
Yeah, I was definitely opening a much tighter range in this situation (but happily joining the 4-5 callers with good multiway hands).

It's a unique game definitely filled with bad-regs and generally gambling addicts.
krilleater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2018, 01:51 PM   #24
wait
banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,116
Re: AKs at 1/3

i think youre both right about the open sizing. amanaplan gonna say its too polarizing to value.
wait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2018, 02:41 PM   #25
Amanaplan
acanalpanamA
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Getting There
Posts: 3,876
Re: AKs at 1/3

I am definitely the silly idiot, but when you say this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by krilleater View Post
Not everyone is raising 10x, but I am with everything I decide to raise considering anything less is getting called ~5 places. Average stack is well over $800.
...then you are spewing pre.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krilleater View Post
If I can open to $30 with strong hands and get callers, why on earth should *not*?
What exactly are 'strong hands' when deep and no one folds? You're losing because you're bad lagging it up against station types and everyone is playing bingo with trash. You're also costing yourself tons of money pre in spots where you have to give up. Things get expensive when you 10x opens in these games and it's completely unnecessary. Select a range that makes nutted hands you can stack off with, open to 10, let them all call w A6o and 84s, KJ, etc, and then out-value/take crusher lines post (if you can) OR just give up pots for 10 and move on to the next hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krilleater View Post
It's a unique game definitely filled with bad-regs and generally gambling addicts.
Confirmed.

GG would crush this game.
Amanaplan is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online