Limit: 2/3 ($370 effective)

Hero has shown to be tight aggressive, and only showned down once with 2 pair in a multiway pot.

V1 3 bets often in position and has shown to be able to 4bet and call off with pockets 8s.

BB is quite splashy and will call 3bets with Qx suited

Preflop:
Hero is UTG with AsKh and raises to $12, V is in LoJack and 3bets to $60. BB Calls. Hero 4bets to $155 (sizing too small?)

V1 calls, BB asks for a count behind, and calls.

Flop:
Jc Js 9c

BB checks, Hero?

All in pre

As played c/f

Meh, I think your sizing is OK pre. I think a shove pre would be an overplay and only gets called by better.

That is an awful flop for our hand. HU I probably GII, but 3 way I think we likely c/f here unfortunately.

I probably limp to reraise although if your open is often going to get 3bet then I don't mind opening. I would just ship it preflop against a loose 3better and loose coldcaller (good hand equity + some FE against hands we want to fold + dead money).

As played, we have less than a 1/2 PSB left. We may be ahead, we might have a touch of FE against small pairs, and even if called we're pretty much getting the right odds to hit one of our overs. I shove.

GcluelessshoveynoobG

I don't mind a jam pre. It's only about 5x his raise, and since a smaller sizing is gonna leave us with 215 behind otf on a pot of about 315 assuming one player calls (this is what we have to think about before making the 4bet, like flying ahead of the airplane) I would rather use our massive FE now vs his range rather than otf when it's going to be harder for him to fold after investing 51 big blinds.

As played prob c/f since he's been seen calling it off light.

Tough spot. I think shoving is definitely going to induce a call (215 into 465 pot) and you will most definitely be behind.

x/f

So I was sizing to shove the flop, which given 1 caller, would still be a good shove for FE. I think when the two villains call, a good part of their rage would be smaller pocket pairs, suited broadways and suited connectors. Much less likely to be QQ KK and AA, and the latter two we block as well. These hands however, are much more likely to be in my range.

With a board of JJ9, a lot of combos of hands with J are eliminated and although we are just dead to 99, I thought if on a board like this I shove AA KK QQ for value, I should probably also jam AK as a bluff and still have outs to hit TPTK. I guess the pot odds would just be too good for a lot of flush draws, for them to fold and we are only ever folding out 7s and below, maybe 8s too.

Results were, I jam, v1 calls with Qs10s, BB folds. turn was 9s river 2s.

Being a little results oriented I felt pretty gutted to lose that way but I guess in his position, I probably will call too (?) given 3-1 odds to hit nut straight and backdoor spades.

Jam pre. Even if you get 1 caller you're going to have less than 1 spr on the flop creating weird situations like this when you miss. Just jam and expect to be flipping a large percentage of the time vs this villain(s).

Players like V1 amaze me. Is there any way this guy could be a winning player? I'd say no, but I defer to the true grinders / pros. I mean, position helps but 3 betting a TAG with QTs and then cold calling a 4 bet with action behind only to set up calling off stacks when the 4 better flop shoves with an open ender on a paired board??? Impossible to be long term profitable right? OP says this guy was 3 betting pre a lot in position...

I agree (as I usually do with shorn) that long term shoving the flop 3 ways is probably -EV. That said, you got it in good. I'm curious to hear how the pros would suggest OP play AA, KK, QQ here. The result would be the same, but the shove would certainly be more justified.

OOP I think my line would be to smooth call the 3 bet and c/f flop after missing, AKo isn't a mandatory 4 bet pre OOP right? Clearly this V is very aggressive and very sticky. I'd wait for a better spot than A high to GII since he's unlikely to fold and he's presenting rather frequent opportunities to play big pots. Always open to counter arguments, just my two cents.

I think shoving pre against these players is the correct move. If they have AA/KK we are left in a spot where we almost always have to gii on all flops anyway - might as well try to realize some FE pre. In real time I probably don't pull the trigger, but I'd like to think I would.

Given the amount of money in the pot I probably shove flop - although I do think the flop is close. I think:

shove > c/f >>>>c/c

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These sticky bluffy gamblers are never long term winners. A lot of them think they are or think they would be if they were just a bit more lucky. They remember the times they built up their stacks to 3 times the buy in but forget they bought in 3 times before they started hitting. They remember having a huge stack of 5 times the buy in and don't think about the fact that they spewed half of that back to the table before they left.

They sometimes look that way to others also because you see them when they built up a huge stack and stayed all night but you didn't see the many times they went broke in half an hour and left early.

Just make all your EP 4 bets jams imo.

So the issue with this hand is if you have to 4 bet to get around 50% of your stack in Pre, your probably better off shoving against Villian 1.

As played, you have to check fold. I’m concerned about Villian 2 cold calling your 4 bet. I would be considering some high pocket pairs he’s slow playing in his range. What hands cold call a 4 bet Pre here?

I'd don't see how we can possibly check/fold the flop when we'll be getting almost breakeven odds to call against QQ-(excluding Jx/99) since we have < 1/2 PSB left. Add the times we're ahead (and simply protecting our equity), could get called by worse (which ended up happening), and might get small pairs to fold, still seems like a trivial flop jam to me.

GamImissingsomething?G

Easy 4b shove against a player that 3b light IP

Thanks for all the input guys, I am amazed that there were actually more input overnight.

Looking at this objectively, I think there were mistakes and merits on both my range and V1 range. I think personally I don't mind his 10-Qss 3bet, I personally would have mostly called in position but I think an occasional 3bet isn't terrible.

I think on my end, when it was 3 bet and called to me, I knew both players think they are much better than they are and this particular hand is so high on my opening range and far above their range that a 4bet is a given, though in hindsight I should maximise FE and minimise awkward flops like this.

I can't comment on the call even IP with 10-Qss as this isn't something I'd do given action behind but I guess each plays to their own game and he did certainly have a stack around 3x BI so I imagine he is an okay player that can profit from the oldies.

He seemed to be there with his friends who subsequently all sat directly to my left after about an hour and made the dynamics super awkward on my end, though I would be inclined to say they would not be big long term winners. Just can't see calling off 8s for 160bb pre even against a drunk as +ev, just because they are drunk does not mean they are shoving 100% of hands.

His other friend also had an interesting hand where he lead a 9 high 2 heart board into 4 people after opening pre. I just thought that flop was so terrible for his range that I would struggle to find any situation where 3 people just straight up folds. Unfortunately I do have a proper job and can't grind them out every day but their attitudes definitely seems like someone who knows how to play but nowhere near as good as they think IMHO