I have 155 behind and a tight image in a 1/2 game. there are 4 limpers in front for 2 including a deepstacked Indian player in the SB who bet out of position 10 semibluffing into 2 players with 56o on 6c7ds, then 50 on the turn into 2 people on 6789c and 100 into me on the river 67896s, I raised the flop called down with 45o to chop.
I raise the BB to 15, everyone calls.
Flop (75), KcTc3s, SB bets 65?

I kind of think that this guy only has a nutted range here?

You already have reads that he donks with a semi bluff range multi way, why is his donk range here any different?

What exactly would you say is that range here? Strictly sets or 2 pair?

Based on your stack size to start the hand, and this players tendencies already shown, stacking off here seems appropriate. Arrrrrr in!!!!

(It becomes even better when we don't have the Ac which will widen his range to include more combos of flush draws).

I had AdKh, there are so many players behind with deep stacks who threaten the SB's deep stack. I think his range is 2 pair+ at this sizing. I doubt he's doing this with KQ,KJ,K9s

If you're certain he has 2 pair+ then what's the question? Fold.

But in a vacuum, given your hand-strength and relatively short stack, all in is the obvious play here.

I just stick it in the middle without much thought. Folding here is bordering on "why did you come to the casino to play hold 'em then ?" IMO.

Not a very comfortable spot for sure, but our bed is made, let's lie down in it.

wouldn't you overfold in this spot. also one of the deep stacked players behind gave me this icy stare

I would be shoving DS players, most of them have their bet sizes broken in smaller games. I don't think he has the goods , i would pay for it $200-300 tops

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Insta shove

Also $65 into a $75 with air is standard for DS players

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isn't that suicide? the guy bet 65 confidently into 4 people and at this sizing he has a made hand multiway. I think he would play KQ, KJ, K9, K8 differently with his whole stack at risk

You're being really mubsy man

it's true I'm mubsy sometimes. when an aggro lag player leads like this isn't it always 2 pair+? the dynamic at the table is also kind of tight and players have respect for each other, it's not really a splashy or loose game

I would be calling this with bottom pair or air.

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why is folding bad, I only have 15 in the pot? when villain bets 50-100 he had a straight on 67896r

Valid points but it is time to level up. My poker game was just like yours, then I learned about bluffs. After that I picked up being a bit more "creative" , limping in AKo and raising 69s, shoving 22 to induce coinflips on regulars I don't respect , it's poker. Sure I am making some -EV moves but losing cost money and I've learned a lot. The important thing is if you want to play TAG nitty and print money then you'll be folding 90% of hands, even the great ones . So your playing your way and no one else is going to understand it. I favor your method of playing I was +EV , I am more focus on playing poker as a whole not just the effective nuts .

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I really doubt a good villain is ever bluffing here like maybe a 0.1% chance and the rake is horrendous

one option is raising oop to 75 with my TT+ range, but I don't like this because I may miss a high percentage of the time and it could still be 3 ways+ this late at night. then I could shove some flops but I'm afraid to be called oop

Every hand is independent from each other you can pick up reads, but your basing everything on prior knowledge. Instead you want to be using prior knowledge along with live reads.

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I use to be able to beat the game a lot better playing tight , so yeah I'm going to validate your -15 loss. I'm gonna let you know ahead of time though, once your ego gets out of line , come back to this thread , it'll make more sense.

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why was I called 4 ways here? I only raised to 15, it was late at night, and I had been raising some hands pre. a raise of 30 and some people would have folded

I am going bigger than $15 pre here. $20 min

As played it's going to be hard to fold this. Also staying at the table max is the key to winning. If you don't want to add on any more, and you are dwindling, my advice is just take your chips off the table and cash in. Playing short stack is harder IMO.

When you raise like this and get four callers, make a note to try a larger raise next time. Nothing wrong with 15 here, but if they'll tolerate 15, try increasing until you figure out the max they'll call with.

If you know that V has 2P+ here, not much point to the thread. Well done developing the read; easy fold; next hand. If you're not sure, well, then you shouldn't be so sure if you see what I mean.

I'm not so sure you're right.

Our position does suck here, with a donk for 80% of the pot and two to act behind us. But there are some bright spots:

* If V hand a monster, he's in perfect position to x/r. That flop likely hits your hand and he gets to trap the other two players before he acts. But he didn't x/r. That might be because he has a big but vulnerable hand (like 2P), but it also might be because he has a modest but vulnerable hand like 1P and wants to find out where he stands without having to call a series of bets.

* If he had a monster, he also might well size a little smaller in order to get calls.

* V has shown the ability to donk draws. There are multiple draws on this flop.

* You're short: SPR is less than 2, albeit with multiple callers.

I think calling is out. Board has draws and you're OOP to two players. If you call, pot will be 200 with 100 behind. You'd need a very clear read to lay it down getting at least 3:1 with TPTK. If it does get called through, flush draws are getting very close to the right price.

Overall, stacks are short and it's plausible that V has something worse. If he does have 2P, you have outs. Go ahead and stick it in. You're going to lose frequently, but if you win more than 39% of the time you're making money.

My thoughts on other points ITT:

Icy stare: If you know what this means from that player, fair enough. Otherwise, this could be anything.

LLSNL V's make bad plays, including betting out with less than 2P into multiple players.

Aggro LAG's are *less* likely to have a made hand here, not more likely. If passive nitty boy leads out like this, I'm instamucking with joy. That said, calling here with air would be... optimistic. At best.

Last point: You asked for the opinion of the forum. It's probably not a productive use of your time to ask for opinions if you already know the answer. I don't hate a fold here, but I think shoving is somewhat profitable.

I folded, small blind lead had KTo, guy behind had KT too.

Extremely easy shove

I think 65 is a significant amount of money for the small blind lead and this villain has led before to 50 with a straight? also KQ, KJ would might raise pre (other players). so what could he possibly have here that I beat only KQ, KJ, K9? it seems like an easy fold

KQ KJ K9 is way more than the value combos he can have lol. And you haven't even factored in all the draws.

Come on man