the only time I'm getting 450BB in preflop with AKsuited is against a MANIAC not a LAG

why would i not 3 bet here especially with a flat caller with AK suited i understand we are deep but this is against a LAG opening range

NOW

when he 4 bets his range changes so we need to evaluate

and flatting AA oop is not optimal idc how deep you are

that only applies if you are a terrible post flop player and cant lay hands down in big pots

i could go with flatting AA on the button in position in a HU pot i could get on board with that

Well that’s simply not true at all; i’m sure there are archives which present compelling arguments for flatting aces oop vs a lag open when truly deep but i can’t be bothered to look those up atm, going to bed...

so you are saying to 3 bet get it in with AK but to flat AA

if we were 800-1000 bb deep yea maybe i would flat with AA

Also can someone tell me what hand besides AK that they bet for value here given this board texture in a 4 bet pot

what's your value range here if you are hero

don't say 55 i never 3 bet squeeze 55 oop here this deep and same with 88 ( preflop )

Here is he $64,000 question: as you're making the 3bet, what did you expect to do to a 4bet here? Can you ever fold to a 4bet here? Are you ever 5beting any range in this situation? If both of those answers are no, doesn't that make your range here exploitable?

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i can fold to a 4 bet here but not for this sizing its 60 more into 160 pot so

we are getting almost 3-1

AK suited vs this 4 bet range of QQKKAAAKAQ suited we still have 45% equity

this is a clear call (+EV)

nowas far as being "exploitable"

how many villains at 1/2 are actually trying to exploit you?
9.9/10 aren't exploiting you...they aren't playing back at you they actually wake up with hands once in awhile

Again you like throwing around terms you don't realize meaning too.

Having AK being a huge part of your range. Your range is not Capped.


You can also bet AA for value. And bet QQ and JJ as a bluff or for value. Depending on how you range villain.


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What hands do you bet for value here vs this 4 bet range on this board texture

how can i bet QQ or JJ here for value when only better calls the turn

are we praying that pocket tens are in his 4 bet range? because they aren't

ok so we have one other hand AA.... we have AA and AK for value here

this isn't a 3 bet pot this is a 4 bet pot how wide do you range a 4 bet pot in a 1/2 game??

What is his 4 bet range?

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do you play 1/2? serious question not trying to sound like a d*ck

if yes

how many 4 bets do you see?

range= AAKKAKQQ rarely AQsuited

so lets say i have QQ or JJ what calls the turn that we beat for value

AQ?

now lets say he calls the turn and we have QQ how can we confidently bet the river for value when he has all the AA and AK in his 4 bet range

so basically QQ is basically a bluff and we are hoping he folds AA

and if we have JJ we are hoping he folds QQ and AA

the real question comes down to can villain call a river bet here with QQ

if we want to get bigger value since he tank called with AA on river i doubt he's calling with QQ

Yes I play 1/2.

You can not get value with QQ or JJ vs that range.

Just fold pre to 4 bet. With your thought process and being OOP. You have very little chance to realize your equity with AK. Or get any value postflop. As we see here.





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i agree to folding that was the advice ive been looking for
but we are getting almost 3-1 pot odds

and are equity vs that range is still 45%
can we still fold?

if he makes it $175o go then its a clear cut fold but to 4 bet to only 102 i don't know

i think the biggest mistakes were bet sizing

3 bet pre bigger

turn a little bigger as well 80-100

With these sizings (your 3bet and his 4bet) that are too small and based on this information...
...both your ranges should be (much) wider than you think.

Oh, and also:

This ship has sailed, you're being excruciatingly tiresome. Keep it up and soon no one will be willing to give you any advice anymore. But since you already think you know everything (including the meaning of capped and polarized), you're only happy anyway with "the advice you were looking for", so no harm no foul.

because I question and debate advice?

poker isn't black and white

its not concrete

when you give me advice I'm going to question to go deeper into a thought process

you cant say oh 3 bet here? OK....why though

sorry I'm not sorry

and yes i did use terminology in the wrong context

other than hitting the <2% flop you got
if you call pre here what were you hoping for? a re going to the river chasing a flush or a gutterball straight?
you want our thoughts then attack them because they don't agree with you.

YOUR'E OUT OF POSITION
he has you covered
its his 1st 4 bet
1-2 players usually don't 4 bet light
you are making money against others and him when he doesn't 4 bet

ALL THIS ADDS UP TO AN EASY FOLD PRE

to address your question
you donk called pre and got lucky now you want to know how much you could milk him
me $100 turn
$150 river

Dont 3! OOP deep if you have no idea how you will respond to a 4!. Flatting your ENTIRE range OOP vs any open 400 blinds deep has plenty of merit.

OOP, I see no reason to flat the 4bet. Make it like 250 and call it off. V should have AA-QQ,AK,AQs sometimes. He can also be 4betting light given how many times you've 3bet.

As played flop check is good, with SPR 3 we can get the money in later and our hand is invulnerable

Turn: Once we check flop, our aim is to get the money in over 2 streets. Bet 150 and shove river

I actually think you played the hand fairly close to optimal aside from the lol-turn-bet.

You could have gone $75 there letting you go a little bigger - like $200 on the river.

I don't think you missed more than $50 total here. WP, NH.

PS: Can't say much about preflop, it's a weird mix of being LSL game and being deep enough that our 4! range actually expands to more than just AA/KK.

key word usually

but this post is great.. for entertainment lets respond

if you saw earlier in the thread I said if he had made it bigger I would have folded

now he's giving us almost 3-1 on a call to this 4 bet

since this is an easy fold pre.....

lets give him a 4 bet range of AA and KK (which isn't "always" this narrow)

Ak suited still has 24% equity therefore this call is +EV

as far as your statement of what was I hoping for?

I don't hope for anything I play post flop poker and evaluate

idc if the flop comes K 32 I'm not losing a lot of money

or if I get a great flop I continue

I even have the capability of turning my hand into a bluff...
on a scary board for AA or KK

wow post flop is an amazing thing isn't it ?

is being oop a disadvantage sure that's a fair statement

but im not exactly playing against ivey or dawn am I

oh and as far as feeling "attacked" look through the thread where did I attack or disrespect anyone? im asking for advice however its not up to you if I agree or disagree with it.

im simple debating because if someone gives logical reasoning behind there advice ill 100% give credit where credit is due

This is my last post in this thread.

If we are narrowing his range to exactly AA and KK and heck Let's throw AK in there as well, then why on Earth would you call a 4bet?? Especially if you aren't continuing on an A high or King high board. The ONLY hands you can really continue with in that thought line is exactly the type of board you got, or a flopped flush.

Great you got thin value on a lucky board but this isn't the type of hand, imo, to be fist pumping to yourself that you played well. You got lucky, extracted max value from the only hand that he really could have and called in that situation and almost even didn't. You coolered him. Theres little discussion left to be had from me.Next hand.

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I didn't range villain here that narrow

I stated earlier I ranged him on AAKKQQ AK AQsuited

I was responding to another post

I like your line up until the turn lead out. I would check the turn for a couple of reasons. First because it allows V to bet with bluffs that he may have 4! you lightly with and also he is likely to bet himself with the range you’ve put him on AA or QQ (occasionally he may have a weaker K that 4bet light such as KQs or KJs). Then on safe rivers I’d lead out for half pot, hoping V calls or raises since this particular line wouldn’t make much since. If however the turn went c/c given this line I suggested I’d bomb the river around pot size to look bluffy.

Given your flop check and turn lead some value hands you have that don’t have a K may include AA, QQ, or 88.