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Old 01-07-2020, 05:38 AM   #1
OmahaDonk
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AK oop 3b pot

V1 plays too many hands, mixing a lot of limps with a few PF raises. He plays decently well post (1200)

V2 is loose passive (1300)

9 handed 3-5

Hero in bb with AK

V1 in ep 20, V2 in mp calls, CO calls. Hero 120, V1 and V2 call, CO folds

Flop (383) : A23
Hero..
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Old 01-07-2020, 06:54 AM   #2
venice10
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

I'm assuming effective stacks are 1300.

Betting $250 and getting it in unless another spade shows up. If he called a 3 bet with KQ of spades, "nice hand, sir."
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Old 01-07-2020, 01:40 PM   #3
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

$175 to protect/get value against high spades and worse Aces but know that your hand is entirely face up. Are you betting KsKx here? QsQx?


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Old 01-07-2020, 02:06 PM   #4
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

Check flop.
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Old 01-07-2020, 02:14 PM   #5
twitcherroo
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

If i’m Checking flop it’s to c/r. Only hand I both expect and hate to see here is AxKs.
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Old 01-07-2020, 02:15 PM   #6
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by twitcherroo View Post
If iím Checking flop itís to c/r. Only hand I both expect and hate to see here is AxKs.
CR here is terrible w/o the Ks.
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Old 01-07-2020, 02:30 PM   #7
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

I x
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Old 01-07-2020, 02:38 PM   #8
jluvs2ball
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

So on this particular flop I would take two lines here. Either continuation bet for 125-140 or check flop and if checks to turn lead for 260-300 on turn.
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Old 01-07-2020, 07:06 PM   #9
OmahaDonk
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic View Post
Check flop.
Are you checking range? Why?
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Old 01-07-2020, 07:20 PM   #10
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

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Originally Posted by OmahaDonk View Post
Are you checking range? Why?
Pretty much.
Not much wants to bet this board. Little value to be had. More value in picking off bluffs/spazzes. My hand doesn't need protection.

Tons of reasons for checking, not much for betting imo.
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Old 01-07-2020, 11:15 PM   #11
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AK oop 3b pot

I disagree that there isnít much to get value from. Yes our hand is face up and you have the hand that most villains will think you have. Just donít fold if you get raised. This way you get value, protection from every single pocket pair with a club, and you pick off spaz bluffs.


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Old 01-07-2020, 11:35 PM   #12
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

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Originally Posted by MogFish View Post
I disagree that there isn’t much to get value from. Yes our hand is face up and you have the hand that most villains will think you have. Just don’t fold if you get raised. This way you get value, protection from every single pocket pair with a club, and you pick off spaz bluffs.


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Solvers disagree with you. Also pretty much every other well regarded player out there.
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Old 01-08-2020, 12:15 AM   #13
MogFish
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

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Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic View Post
Solvers disagree with you. Also pretty much every other well regarded player out there.


Damn I forgot poker was a solved game! My
mistake. Them robots always get me!

Obviously this is an exploitative line. Solvers expect a GTO response from our opponents. We wonít get one here. In my opinion, betting this flop with this hand is the most +EV in standard 2-5 line ups.

Why even discuss hands if youíre gonna spit out solver results at me and just use that as gospel?


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Old 01-08-2020, 01:08 AM   #14
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

I get that solver results aren't the end all. But in this case I think they are quite right.
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Old 01-08-2020, 01:19 AM   #15
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

Ya, this is definitely a flop check or a small cbet.
People badly misplay these monotone flops and think they need to punish whoever has the king of spades here and that often puts players in terrible spots.
I see players unnecessarily **** themselves on these monotone flops every session I play. This is a classic example of that. Betting 2/3 pot or bigger with a red AK here is very bad, even as an exploitative adjustment imo.
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Old 01-08-2020, 02:43 AM   #16
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

Putting in a vote for small cbet.

I don't check flops often (enough), so when I do, I feel I raise flags.
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Old 01-08-2020, 03:02 AM   #17
OvertlySexual
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

We barely have any flushes (KQs maybe), we have 3 set combos, 12 AK, 3 AQs (?), 7 K high flush draws (KsXs, AxKs).

Our opponents however, if they know how to defend should have 2-3 flushes and sometimes if they don't and they are bad players a good deal more.

If by value, we means hands that will happily get it in for 3 streets and stack off, we really don't have any. What we have is a lot of showdown and semibluffs.

I think it's a check.
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Old 01-08-2020, 03:17 AM   #18
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

check
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Old 01-08-2020, 07:18 AM   #19
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

Solvers are great in HU situations. Unfortunately, this hand isn't HU.

Having a second player in the hand increases the odds considerably that the one of them will draw to a better hand or can call a bet. That's why betting is better.
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:44 AM   #20
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

Having a second player in the hand is actually more of a reason to check.
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Old 01-08-2020, 03:26 PM   #21
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10 View Post
Solvers are great in HU situations. Unfortunately, this hand isn't HU.

Having a second player in the hand increases the odds considerably that the one of them will draw to a better hand or can call a bet. That's why betting is better.
Ya, this is really offbase.
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Old 01-08-2020, 03:33 PM   #22
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

To put it into perspective, think about bomb pots.

When you have TP vs 8 other players should you start piling money in to protect your hand?

How about 7?

6?
5?
4?

HU makes the most sense to start betting doesn't it?

The more players that are in the hand, the more passive you should play w/ TP and this is even more pronounced on a monotone board.
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Old 01-08-2020, 04:23 PM   #23
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

Ima fish - Based on V descriptions i fire. I consulted another fish whose game I respekt a lot and they fire 2
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Old 01-08-2020, 04:45 PM   #24
ggodd
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

Given the villain descriptions I start with a bet of $150-175 and evaluate from there.

Vs good players this hand changes a lot and we might want to mix in a lot of check/eval on this board.
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Old 01-08-2020, 05:06 PM   #25
sixsevenoff
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Re: AK oop 3b pot

I read through the responses here first instead of just writing my opinion, then looking at responses because a) monotone boards tend to be a weakness of mine and b) I missed the thread and it's already loaded with responses.

I personally would bet here, but I don't feel good about it, especially with some really solid players saying check. I'm betting $150 because I expect to have the best hand a majority of the time, and want to deny equity/get value from Ax, and K Xx. Why are we checking here? I don't think it's a bad outcome to bet and get two folds. I'll have to run this through Flopzilla after class and see if I'm really missing out on something.
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