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01-07-2020 , 05:38 AM

OmahaDonk

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 4,923

V1 plays too many hands, mixing a lot of limps with a few PF raises. He plays decently well post (1200)

V2 is loose passive (1300)

9 handed 3-5

Hero in bb with A

V1 in ep 20, V2 in mp calls, CO calls. Hero 120, V1 and V2 call, CO folds

Flop (383) : A

Hero..

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01-07-2020 , 06:54 AM

venice10

Referee

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 25,855

I'm assuming effective stacks are 1300.

Betting $250 and getting it in unless another spade shows up. If he called a 3 bet with KQ of spades, "nice hand, sir."

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01-07-2020 , 01:40 PM

MogFish

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 334

$175 to protect/get value against high spades and worse Aces but know that your hand is entirely face up. Are you betting KsKx here? QsQx?

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01-07-2020 , 02:06 PM

Mr Spyutastic

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,111

Check flop.

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01-07-2020 , 02:14 PM

twitcherroo

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 2,482

If i’m Checking flop it’s to c/r. Only hand I both expect and hate to see here is AxKs.

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01-07-2020 , 02:15 PM

Mr Spyutastic

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,111

Quote:

Originally Posted by twitcherroo

If i’m Checking flop it’s to c/r. Only hand I both expect and hate to see here is AxKs.

CR here is terrible w/o the Ks.

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01-07-2020 , 02:30 PM

WereBeer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,700

I x

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01-07-2020 , 02:38 PM

jluvs2ball

stranger

Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 9

So on this particular flop I would take two lines here. Either continuation bet for 125-140 or check flop and if checks to turn lead for 260-300 on turn.

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01-07-2020 , 07:06 PM

OmahaDonk

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 4,923

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic

Check flop.

Are you checking range? Why?

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01-07-2020 , 07:20 PM

#10

Mr Spyutastic

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,111

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmahaDonk

Are you checking range? Why?

Pretty much.
Not much wants to bet this board. Little value to be had. More value in picking off bluffs/spazzes. My hand doesn't need protection.

Tons of reasons for checking, not much for betting imo.

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01-07-2020 , 11:15 PM

#11

MogFish

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 334

I disagree that there isn’t much to get value from. Yes our hand is face up and you have the hand that most villains will think you have. Just don’t fold if you get raised. This way you get value, protection from every single pocket pair with a club, and you pick off spaz bluffs.

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01-07-2020 , 11:35 PM

#12

Mr Spyutastic

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,111

Quote:

Originally Posted by MogFish

Solvers disagree with you. Also pretty much every other well regarded player out there.

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01-08-2020 , 12:15 AM

#13

MogFish

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 334

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic

Solvers disagree with you. Also pretty much every other well regarded player out there.

Damn I forgot poker was a solved game! My
mistake. Them robots always get me!

Obviously this is an exploitative line. Solvers expect a GTO response from our opponents. We won’t get one here. In my opinion, betting this flop with this hand is the most +EV in standard 2-5 line ups.

Why even discuss hands if you’re gonna spit out solver results at me and just use that as gospel?

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01-08-2020 , 01:08 AM

#14

Mr Spyutastic

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,111

I get that solver results aren't the end all. But in this case I think they are quite right.

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01-08-2020 , 01:19 AM

#15

XtraScratch8

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 3,578

Ya, this is definitely a flop check or a small cbet.
People badly misplay these monotone flops and think they need to punish whoever has the king of spades here and that often puts players in terrible spots.
I see players unnecessarily **** themselves on these monotone flops every session I play. This is a classic example of that. Betting 2/3 pot or bigger with a red AK here is very bad, even as an exploitative adjustment imo.

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01-08-2020 , 02:43 AM

#16

D-Beat

banned

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 3,009

Putting in a vote for small cbet.

I don't check flops often (enough), so when I do, I feel I raise flags.

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01-08-2020 , 03:02 AM

#17

OvertlySexual

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 2,093

We barely have any flushes (KQs maybe), we have 3 set combos, 12 AK, 3 AQs (?), 7 K high flush draws (KsXs, AxKs).

Our opponents however, if they know how to defend should have 2-3 flushes and sometimes if they don't and they are bad players a good deal more.

If by value, we means hands that will happily get it in for 3 streets and stack off, we really don't have any. What we have is a lot of showdown and semibluffs.

I think it's a check.

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01-08-2020 , 03:17 AM

#18

ionutd

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 13,624

check

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01-08-2020 , 07:18 AM

#19

venice10

Referee

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 25,855

Solvers are great in HU situations. Unfortunately, this hand isn't HU.

Having a second player in the hand increases the odds considerably that the one of them will draw to a better hand or can call a bet. That's why betting is better.

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01-08-2020 , 10:44 AM

#20

Mr Spyutastic

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,111

Having a second player in the hand is actually more of a reason to check.

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01-08-2020 , 03:26 PM

#21

XtraScratch8

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 3,578

Quote:

Originally Posted by venice10

Ya, this is really offbase.

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01-08-2020 , 03:33 PM

#22

Mr Spyutastic

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,111

To put it into perspective, think about bomb pots.

When you have TP vs 8 other players should you start piling money in to protect your hand?

How about 7?

6?
5?
4?

HU makes the most sense to start betting doesn't it?

The more players that are in the hand, the more passive you should play w/ TP and this is even more pronounced on a monotone board.

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01-08-2020 , 04:23 PM

#23

squid face

ChatThreadPrez

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 11,475

Ima fish - Based on V descriptions i fire. I consulted another fish whose game I respekt a lot and they fire 2

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01-08-2020 , 04:45 PM

#24

ggodd

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 242

Given the villain descriptions I start with a bet of $150-175 and evaluate from there.

Vs good players this hand changes a lot and we might want to mix in a lot of check/eval on this board.

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01-08-2020 , 05:06 PM

#25

sixsevenoff

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 5,411

I read through the responses here first instead of just writing my opinion, then looking at responses because a) monotone boards tend to be a weakness of mine and b) I missed the thread and it's already loaded with responses.

I personally would bet here, but I don't feel good about it, especially with some really solid players saying check. I'm betting $150 because I expect to have the best hand a majority of the time, and want to deny equity/get value from Ax, and K

Xx. Why are we checking here? I don't think it's a bad outcome to bet and get two folds. I'll have to run this through Flopzilla after class and see if I'm really missing out on something.

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