Fairly calm game. Hero is senior citizen been playing fairly tight. V1 UTG new to table with about a 100 stack. V2 is on Button .. 20 something playing loose. Hero has been playing about 3 hours, V2 played earlier in the session, left losing for a while and returned about 45 minutes ago. V2 and Hero have gone heads up several times with about equal results.

Hero has $ 220 behind (about - $80 for the session). V2 has about $ 250.

OTTH

V1 limps
Hero raises to 6
fold to V2
V2 raises to 22
blinds fold
v1 folds
Hero raises to 44
V2 shoves
Hero ??

Welcome to the forum, OP. Please don't post results, as it biases responses. Just get up to the decision you have the most questions about and stop without saying what you did. I edited them out for you.

$6 is a very small open for most 1/2 games. Is it normal for this one? Even if it is, I add a BB for the limper. In my most recent normal 1/2 game (I've been out of 1/2 for the most part for a while), I'd open to $14 there.

AP, I don't mind the 4-bet if you think V2 might be playing position and be out of line because your bet looks small. Once he shoves though, it's a turbo-fold without reads of spewiness. Very few 1/2 players have a 5-bet range that isn't AA and KK exclusively.

$6 is a very small raiser after a limper. At 1/2 open raises of $10 are typical and $15+ after a limper is common.

The near minimum raise is unusual and rarely good. Unless V2 was bluffing he isn't folding and your bloating the pot while still giving him odds to fish for a good flop. Folding to the shove is correct unless you think tilt is highly likely. His shoving range will be AA/KK heavy and you are not doing well against any value shoving hand.

Raise to 12 - 15 on your initial raise. I know you describe the player as young and loose but if you are an OMC nit type as you indicate, and this villain is a decent player he should really only have AA,KK, AKs, not even queens really (maybe not even AK) if he's a good thinking LAG. If he just a young loose baddie he could have all sorts of garbage. Just depends on your read. But if he is good enough to play the villain, his range is pretty nuts only.

Size your open & 4bet a little bigger. Also, if you're an older guy/lady, you need to understand your image. Most people younger are going to assume you're a nit/super ABC. No one is going to put you on AK here. No one will suspect you're capable of it. They're gonna assume you do this with QQ or better, and they are unlikely to bluff you or overplay their hand preflop vs you. You can safely fold.

Your raise size is too small for a live game, your bet should be $12 IMO. Only you know your table conditions though so I could be wrong there.

Your 4bet size is terrible because you give him direct odds to call with ATC. You want fold equity with AK to get rid of TT/JJ.

As played easy fold.

i normally open 5x and 5x+total limp, so open more next time.

if you open 12, he might 3x you around 40.. then its either you shove or fold. this is read and villain dependent.

Agreed...bet sizing is wrong. $6 bet isn’t going to induce too many people to fold. It’s more of a pot sweetener bet. Generally at 1/2, people who call $2 will call $6. So you still may get the same 6 people who’d limp calling and you are bloating the pot. I’d bet $17 PF here. OOP I’d be content taking down the pot uncontested ($5 rake free where I play)or going to a flop with no more then a 1-2 players. Flopping TPTK heads up is nice...in a 7-way pot on a wet board OOP, not so.

Also, raising to $44 accomplishes nothing here. Almost no one folds to this raise. There’s no one else you are deterring from calling (it’s just the 2 of you at this point).

Finally your image you state is that of a tight OWM. V2 should be aware of this and should be able to tell you have something. As mentioned, 5bets in 1/2 are almost always AA/KK. Even with you odd sizing here, you are a big dog here.




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If someone shoves pre into an OMC (old man coffee aka you :beer: ) original raiser it's AA or KK at least 90% of the time.

I'd let it go.

Agree with everything that's been said, regarding sizing and image. People don't have loose 5! ranges at 1/2, and add that to the fact that you're an old man that 4!, this guy is never bluffing (and if he is, don't worry, he won't be at the table very long). Your 4! says that you are NOT messing around, and his 5! says he doesn't gaf. This is aces (praying that you have kings) like 90% of the time. Easy fold.

Well, I hope im never too old to learn Based on some recent hands were we each got the best of the other (at much milder pots) I thought he was trying to push me around with something much less and didnt want to be intimidated .. Instead, got felted on what the above says was a unanimous fold.. My bad .. live and learn .. Thanks for the candid feedback .. BTW, of course he did have AA.

Agree with everything said here about sizing, etc.
The interesting thing about your min 4bet is that it looks incredibly strong, especially from a senior citizen, and he STILL ships over you.
So, yeah, this is AA 80% of the time (and KK the rest).

EZ fold given the dynamic you described and your small 4! saved you money. Even LAGs won't 5! an OMC without a great hand....in fact, your small 4! size would induce most to flat with a lot of their range and only shove with KK+ IMO. So, not a thought on folding this.

I too would open for more pre. In my game, $12-$25 is the general open.

For what it's worth, every live player under 40 will assume you are a total nit. If they 4! you, and to a lesser extent 3! you, it's going to be KK+ 90% of the time.

I revived this thread for a few reasons, the main one being that there is a thread about opening UTG in 1/2NL for $6 that ended up in quite a debate. Does anyone have the link? If so, would appreciate it.

I have been watching/talking with a successful tournament player, who has been dragging out $500 - $700 profit almost every day that he came to our casino & played the 1/2NL game. Last night he took out well over a grand due to fish at the table who were clueless but had won promo money earlier in the week.

He opens for $6 + $2 for every limper & swears by it. He loves how 1/2NL players turn their hands face up by their bet sizing. He can dump AA UTG otf when it's obvious he's been out flopped, but believes in the fact that AA has more equity vs 9 Vs going to the flop & will win him more $$ long term compared to 3 way, IF, he can get away his hand when need be.

Now it's not the $6 + $2 for each limper alone that makes his money. He's excellent at putting players on a hand. So why does he play 1/2NL? It's usually an easy way to make the $1k needed to get in a tournament.

Months back, I ran into a player with a very similar style at MGM who opened for $10 + $3 no matter what he had. He was also a successful tournament player & one of the best 1/3NL players I've run across. Again, because he was very good at putting players on a tight range & narrowing down quickly from street to street. His belief is that there is so much money $$ to be made in allowing your Recs to overplay their hand. "When you open for $6 UTG with QQ/KQs/AKs/98s, they don't have a clue what you have & when they get burned a few times, you can really open your range [within reason] in EP because they're afraid to raise."

The 2nd question is about 4! in 1/2NL games. Another successful player believes that in 1/2NL games, you should not 3! with anything other than KK/AA & only 4! with AA when your V is already pot committed pre.

What say you?

I say that this thread is the place for that discussion.

Garick to the rescue! Again....

I've started reading the thread Garick gave & there is no reason to continue the topic on this thread. Great thread given by Garick.