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AK Hero call vs Maniac AK Hero call vs Maniac

12-08-2013 , 09:18 PM
Last night playing 1/2, 6 handed with a passive table.

Villian sits two seats to my left and has been limping 75% of hands. Villain was an older man who would bet any top pair and call with any piece of the board and was on his 3rd rebuy sitting with around $350. Hero had around $285. Villain had shown several bluffs which led to the following:

Folds to Hero OTB who raises to $7 with Q 5, SB folds, villain calls ($15 in pot).

Flops comes 6 9 9. Villain checks, Hero bets $13, villain calls ($41 in pot).

Turn comes J. Villain checks, hero checks.

River comes 2. Villain bets $35, hero calls.

Villain shows 78

Villain could have anything here PF, but has been aggressive with all big hands which led me to believe he would never play a 9 that way. His tendency to check call smaller pairs also helped me eliminated a 6 from his range as he wouldn't bet the river with a 6. He would have reraised JJ PF, so I could only put him on a missed draw.

I got myself into trouble a few hands later with the same villain.

UTG straddles for $5, UTG +1 limps, folds to hero OTB, hero raises to $17 with AK, villain calls ($39 in pot).

Flop comes 449. Villain checks, hero bets $25, villain calls ($89 in pot).

Turn comes 7. Villain checks, hero checks.

River comes 7. Villain bets $50, hero calls.

Villain shows 43.

I felt I was beat but that he would reraise any pair TT+ PF and was unlikely to have a four in his hand unless he had 44. He was also unlikely to bet that large for value with a 9, he commonly bet $15-$20 every street with marginal holdings. His big bet river range is polarized between bluffs and the nuts, and I think on this board he was unlikely to have the nuts. I talked myself into a call because I couldn't figure out what he could have besides a flush draw that he would bet $50 on the river with. This is a common leak in my game and I seem to talk myself into too many calls when I'm beat.

This is my first post, please let me know if I did anything wrong and thanks in advance for the feedback!
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12-08-2013 , 09:50 PM
Welcome to the fora!

Next time, don't post the results, as it wil skew people's analysis Instead, get to the V's river bet and then post "Hero: ?"

Raise bigger pre. At least $20 with a sticky limper in a straddled pot.

AP, he could have missed FDs in his range, although the fact that you called last time, makes this much less likely. He's also sticky enough that I hate raising river. I think it's close between a call and a fold, given the V, though it's a clear fold against most Vs.
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12-08-2013 , 09:57 PM
Thank you for your reply. I have a few questions. What does AP mean? Is my hand analysis clear or is there something else I should be considering during the hand? I have a problem talking myself into larger calls sometimes even when I think I'm beat.
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12-08-2013 , 09:58 PM
Given your description of villain I think the AK hand is fine.
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12-08-2013 , 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
Given your description of villain I think the AK hand is fine.
Could I have done anything differently to save money? Can I check back the flop because he calls with any piece even though that would risk letting him pair up or something?
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12-08-2013 , 10:27 PM
1st hand - OTB raise is fine if you're comfortable post, since you know you'll likely have to play it postflop. River hero call is kind of thin unless vill only calls flop with pairs/draws and never with an ace. Also, a thinking vill can bet a pair of 6s on the river, though this guy doesn't appear to be thinking (and second hand is making me think his river range is always pretty polarized).

2nd hand - don't think I can fold given odds and the way the first hand went.
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12-08-2013 , 10:33 PM
Is there a way to edit threads, I had Q6 for two pair not Q5.
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12-08-2013 , 10:36 PM
with a pair of 6s, river call is fine imo.
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12-08-2013 , 10:44 PM
AP is "as played"

The Q6 is a huge difference in the first hand. Would you have called with Q5s?

Second hand is fine until river. The difference is in the board, with no busted draws (and no draws OTF as there was in the first hand) you have to remember the previous hand (when he called flop with an OESD) and ask yourself what he called the flop with this time. Given the board texture on the second hand vs the board texture on the first hand, I think you have to weight his range more to hands that beat you.
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12-08-2013 , 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster65
AP is "as played"

The Q6 is a huge difference in the first hand. Would you have called with Q5s?

Second hand is fine until river. The difference is in the board, with no busted draws (and no draws OTF as there was in the first hand) you have to remember the previous hand (when he called flop with an OESD) and ask yourself what he called the flop with this time. Given the board texture on the second hand vs the board texture on the first hand, I think you have to weight his range more to hands that beat you.
Thank you for your reply. There were two diamonds OTF that didn't get there which greatly contributed to my river call. Should I have considered checking back the flop because of the villains tendency to call with any piece of the board?

I wouldn't have called with Q5s because I'm not confident enough in my reading abilities to make that big of a call.
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12-08-2013 , 11:12 PM
No, I think your flop bet is good. Once he calls though, proceed with caution. Also, there are less Villains that will call a flush draw on a paired board than on a non paired board, you should definitely find out if this guy is one of them (Valuetown!).

Also, since you now know that he will bluff busted draws on the river, you should think about why calling against this Villain on that board with Q5 is fine (and almost the same as calling with Q6). What is it about the board texture that makes Q5 an ok bluffcatcher there?
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12-08-2013 , 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster65
No, I think your flop bet is good. Once he calls though, proceed with caution. Also, there are less Villains that will call a flush draw on a paired board than on a non paired board, you should definitely find out if this guy is one of them (Valuetown!).

Also, since you now know that he will bluff busted draws on the river, you should think about why calling against this Villain on that board with Q5 is fine (and almost the same as calling with Q6). What is it about the board texture that makes Q5 an ok bluffcatcher there?
I do understand that with this board texture my relative hand strength is nearly the same as if I had Q5. I think the call would be okay because the board is rainbow with straight draw possibilities. Q high would beat all the busted straight draw possibilities.
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12-08-2013 , 11:42 PM
i like it in a vacuum but after the Q5cc hand I think he's less likely to be bluffing

also with a straddle + caller, 17 pre is too small
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12-09-2013 , 12:39 AM
1st off sick call with Q5, very puzzling? You played the hand pretty standard until the river. I agree he is less likely to bluff after you picked him lff once already. I don't like bluff catching maniacs, also once you pull that off I'd assume people might start betting thiner against you. Vs a station just value bet don't make these super thin calls. You admitted it's leak so plug it.
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