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Old 01-13-2018, 03:25 PM   #1
sunnyravencourt
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AK flop play OOP

Hero is AKdd in the big blind. Cutoff (decent player) raises 3.5bb's and button calls. Hero calls not wanting to raise because 1: OOP, and 2: no point in giving away strength at this point.

Flop comes Ts8h7d. CO bets the full pot. Button folds.

Hero?

Is a fold too weak here? 2 overs, backdoor flush and straight. CO's range is fairly wide since he was first in while in good position. The full pot bet is what makes me wonder.
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:28 PM   #2
setintostraight
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Re: AK flop play OOP

Shouldn't you be first to act on the flop?

Did you check?

Also, some reads on Vs and effective stack sizes would be nice to know.

Is this 1/2, 1/3 or 2/5 ?
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:35 PM   #3
sunnyravencourt
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Re: AK flop play OOP

I did check. Stack sizes were about 80-100bb for all of us.

The check is also another question I suppose. Should I have donkbet into the field with 2 overcards and 2 backdoor draws.
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:38 PM   #4
dwiele
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Re: AK flop play OOP

3b pre, easy fold flop as played
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:47 PM   #5
thin_slicing
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Re: AK flop play OOP

If you don’t 3-bet this pre it’s an easy check fold.
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:47 PM   #6
Nogyong
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Re: AK flop play OOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwiele View Post
3b pre, easy fold flop as played
This.

This flop hits villain's 3.5x raising range. We're out of position with no information which suggests floating the flop and leading the river will work.
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:09 PM   #7
johnnyBuz
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Re: AK flop play OOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogyong View Post
This.

This flop hits villain's 3.5x raising range. We're out of position with no information which suggests floating the flop and leading the river will work.
There’s nothing in the OP to indicate his preflop sizing means anything other than he chose 3.5 BB’s.

You could easily argue this board hits our preflop call range harder than it hits his PFR range.

I wouldn’t get to the flop in this manner, but if I were to continue it would be with a x/r looking to barrel good turns.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:03 PM   #8
Nozsr
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Re: AK flop play OOP

At first glance, Johnny's line looks like spew.

BUT so few players are this aggressive, one would think most of the time this line gets the money.

The question is, do we know our Villains well enough to get the money often enough so that this play is +EV?

And the other question is, do we have the balls to take this line a lot of the time?

Each of us might have a different answer to the second question.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:09 PM   #9
MikeStarr
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Re: AK flop play OOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
There’s nothing in the OP to indicate his preflop sizing means anything other than he chose 3.5 BB’s.

You could easily argue this board hits our preflop call range harder than it hits his PFR range.

I wouldn’t get to the flop in this manner, but if I were to continue it would be with a x/r looking to barrel good turns.
Welcome to the variance train to hell. Choo Choo!
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Old 01-14-2018, 06:10 AM   #10
Nogyong
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Re: AK flop play OOP

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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
There’s nothing in the OP to indicate his preflop sizing means anything other than he chose 3.5 BB’s.
I was assuming this is 1/2. Unless proven otherwise I regard a raise to 7 to be a playable but non-premium hand.

I don't expect him to have AK/AQ/AJ/KQ too often with this preflop raise size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
You could easily argue this board hits our preflop call range harder than it hits his PFR range.
Yes but if he has a peice of this it's going to be hard for us to find a profitable line by calling. He can easily barrel the turn or check back turn and call one more bet on the river.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
I wouldn’t get to the flop in this manner, but if I were to continue it would be with a x/r looking to barrel good turns.
I had the same thought.

Last edited by Nogyong; 01-14-2018 at 06:24 AM.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:39 PM   #11
Richard32
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Re: AK flop play OOP

I 3 bet here a very large majority of the time.

1. We have a very good hand.
2. It looks like we are squeezing and can win the pot without seeing a flop.


As played I fold easily.
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:33 PM   #12
jc315
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Re: AK flop play OOP

you've gotta 3bet a CO open with this hand man.

i would never x/r this flop tbh... x/c sometimes vs aggro players who are opening wide enough from CO. vs nittier players just x/f.
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:48 PM   #13
thin_slicing
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Re: AK flop play OOP

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
There’s nothing in the OP to indicate his preflop sizing means anything other than he chose 3.5 BB’s.

You could easily argue this board hits our preflop call range harder than it hits his PFR range.

I wouldn’t get to the flop in this manner, but if I were to continue it would be with a x/r looking to barrel good turns.
With the back door draws I don't mind this play.
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:55 PM   #14
sunnyravencourt
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Re: AK flop play OOP

I agree with all of you. The mistake was made early by not 3betting this hand from the BB even though I'm OOP.
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