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AK flop play OOP AK flop play OOP

01-13-2018 , 03:25 PM
Hero is AKdd in the big blind. Cutoff (decent player) raises 3.5bb's and button calls. Hero calls not wanting to raise because 1: OOP, and 2: no point in giving away strength at this point.

Flop comes Ts8h7d. CO bets the full pot. Button folds.

Hero?

Is a fold too weak here? 2 overs, backdoor flush and straight. CO's range is fairly wide since he was first in while in good position. The full pot bet is what makes me wonder.
AK flop play OOP Quote
01-13-2018 , 03:28 PM
Shouldn't you be first to act on the flop?

Did you check?

Also, some reads on Vs and effective stack sizes would be nice to know.

Is this 1/2, 1/3 or 2/5 ?
AK flop play OOP Quote
01-13-2018 , 03:35 PM
I did check. Stack sizes were about 80-100bb for all of us.

The check is also another question I suppose. Should I have donkbet into the field with 2 overcards and 2 backdoor draws.
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01-13-2018 , 03:38 PM
3b pre, easy fold flop as played
AK flop play OOP Quote
01-13-2018 , 03:47 PM
If you don’t 3-bet this pre it’s an easy check fold.
AK flop play OOP Quote
01-13-2018 , 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwiele
3b pre, easy fold flop as played
This.

This flop hits villain's 3.5x raising range. We're out of position with no information which suggests floating the flop and leading the river will work.
AK flop play OOP Quote
01-13-2018 , 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nogyong
This.

This flop hits villain's 3.5x raising range. We're out of position with no information which suggests floating the flop and leading the river will work.
There’s nothing in the OP to indicate his preflop sizing means anything other than he chose 3.5 BB’s.

You could easily argue this board hits our preflop call range harder than it hits his PFR range.

I wouldn’t get to the flop in this manner, but if I were to continue it would be with a x/r looking to barrel good turns.
AK flop play OOP Quote
01-13-2018 , 08:03 PM
At first glance, Johnny's line looks like spew.

BUT so few players are this aggressive, one would think most of the time this line gets the money.

The question is, do we know our Villains well enough to get the money often enough so that this play is +EV?

And the other question is, do we have the balls to take this line a lot of the time?

Each of us might have a different answer to the second question.
AK flop play OOP Quote
01-13-2018 , 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
There’s nothing in the OP to indicate his preflop sizing means anything other than he chose 3.5 BB’s.

You could easily argue this board hits our preflop call range harder than it hits his PFR range.

I wouldn’t get to the flop in this manner, but if I were to continue it would be with a x/r looking to barrel good turns.
Welcome to the variance train to hell. Choo Choo!
AK flop play OOP Quote
01-14-2018 , 06:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
There’s nothing in the OP to indicate his preflop sizing means anything other than he chose 3.5 BB’s.
I was assuming this is 1/2. Unless proven otherwise I regard a raise to 7 to be a playable but non-premium hand.

I don't expect him to have AK/AQ/AJ/KQ too often with this preflop raise size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
You could easily argue this board hits our preflop call range harder than it hits his PFR range.
Yes but if he has a peice of this it's going to be hard for us to find a profitable line by calling. He can easily barrel the turn or check back turn and call one more bet on the river.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
I wouldn’t get to the flop in this manner, but if I were to continue it would be with a x/r looking to barrel good turns.
I had the same thought.

Last edited by Nogyong; 01-14-2018 at 06:24 AM.
AK flop play OOP Quote
01-14-2018 , 12:39 PM
I 3 bet here a very large majority of the time.

1. We have a very good hand.
2. It looks like we are squeezing and can win the pot without seeing a flop.


As played I fold easily.
AK flop play OOP Quote
01-14-2018 , 02:33 PM
you've gotta 3bet a CO open with this hand man.

i would never x/r this flop tbh... x/c sometimes vs aggro players who are opening wide enough from CO. vs nittier players just x/f.
AK flop play OOP Quote
01-14-2018 , 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
There’s nothing in the OP to indicate his preflop sizing means anything other than he chose 3.5 BB’s.

You could easily argue this board hits our preflop call range harder than it hits his PFR range.

I wouldn’t get to the flop in this manner, but if I were to continue it would be with a x/r looking to barrel good turns.
With the back door draws I don't mind this play.
AK flop play OOP Quote
01-14-2018 , 02:55 PM
I agree with all of you. The mistake was made early by not 3betting this hand from the BB even though I'm OOP.
AK flop play OOP Quote

      
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