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AK facing turn jam AK facing turn jam

09-25-2020 , 12:29 AM
Hi all, was playing 1/2, faced a turn jam with top/top. Thoughts?

8-handed UTG straddle to $5, UTG+1 double straddles to $10. UTG+2 limps $10

Hero (~$400, tight image) in HJ opens to $50 with AK. V (~$350) in CO calls $50. (pot: $128).

Flop AJ6

I check, V bets $75, I call. (pot $278)

I check thinking this is a super dry-board and might get one street of value if I bet. Obviously plan on calling any bet with plans of getting it in by river. V makes it big on this dry board and my instinct is 66, JJ, A6dd, 8x A10, 8x AQo, 6x AJo, and then the wheel suited aces maybe. With this sizing on this board, didn't think c/r was smart.

Turn: Q

I check, V jams ~$225. Hero?

V seems like a good player, mainly plays tournament and has been running great. 3 bet jammed hero on the flop earlier with flopped flush vs. top 2. Current hand is really under-rep'd but the turn jam makes it seem like V has 2p, a set of JJ/66 and maybe KJhh/J10hh/K10 which we block.

Last edited by adji; 09-25-2020 at 12:49 AM.
AK facing turn jam Quote
09-25-2020 , 01:16 AM
Further thoughts on checking flop: I thought pot was already big enough (SPR ~3) that it was easy to get it in by river even if it checks through. I should be either way ahead or way behind here anyways and thought my hand didn't really need any protection.
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09-25-2020 , 08:14 AM
I think check-jam the flop is an interesting line here. Villain already put in 125 total, and the check-shove flop line can sometimes look full of **** so getting us some lighter calls.

The thing with top pair hands is that the board rarely get any better for them plus it can be a sticky spot to navigate out of position. In a low SPR spot like this i prefer to make this easy for ourself, get the money in on the flop where we very likely is ahead.
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09-25-2020 , 08:31 AM
As played i am mostly folding on this turn. We dont beat much anymore and this card is one of the worst in the deck.
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09-25-2020 , 09:00 AM
I'd fold as played.

OTF - I prefer a small bet on an A-high flop HU.
Apart from being a common holding (AX) in a raised pot, we also have some FE when raising hands like KQs pre and continue.
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09-25-2020 , 09:43 AM
I don't mind the flop check mainly because I think checking often as the PFR on flops when you are OOP is a good strategy overall, and this is a good hand to protect your checking range.

I am probably mostly raising the flop once he bets, but I don't mind the call either since SPR is getting low and the board is dry.

The turn sucks so much, and it's probably a fold, but I don't think I can get away from it and I'd end up calling. I think once you take passive lines with strong hands sometimes you just have to close your eyes and continue the plan. It would be a much easier call if the Jack was a heart on the flop instead of the Ace.
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09-25-2020 , 12:39 PM
At a SPR of under 3, trying to play pot control is a hopeless task. If he doesn't have an ace or better, he's going to x/f no matter what street you bet. Just bet out. Hope to catch him with a weaker ace.

As played, he jammed, but it isn't a huge bet compared to the pot. You should have figured you're going to have to commit stacks. I'd fold since the turn is horrible for you, but on a blank, I wouldn't have call the flop if I wasn't going to call the jam on the turn.
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09-25-2020 , 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
At a SPR of under 3, trying to play pot control is a hopeless task. If he doesn't have an ace or better, he's going to x/f no matter what street you bet. Just bet out. Hope to catch him with a weaker ace.

As played, he jammed, but it isn't a huge bet compared to the pot. You should have figured you're going to have to commit stacks. I'd fold since the turn is horrible for you, but on a blank, I wouldn't have call the flop if I wasn't going to call the jam on the turn.
I ended up folding. Didn't think I was beating any hands that jam turn. Definitely planned on getting the money in on a blank turn but I think at this point, all the A's got there.

You don't think checking the flop gives V a chance to try and bluff at it? Would also think a x/x on the flop would make a J stickier on the turn.
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09-25-2020 , 09:29 PM
Meh, I'm kinda apt to call as played vs a tourney "pro"

Turn isn't ideal but he can also show up with a lot of bd heart stuff as well as smaller overplayed Ax just cuz he is a tourney guy....

This is more about live reads than anything. If he's loose enough pre to call with say 76hh then I can definitely get behind calling
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09-26-2020 , 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adji
You don't think checking the flop gives V a chance to try and bluff at it?
The average LLSNL player doesn't bluff nearly enough to make this worthwhile.
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09-30-2020 , 11:59 AM
I don't get this hand...why raise with AK, hit about as safe as a flop as you can, and then play so passively. You have TPTK, and are very unlikely to improve. What else are you expecting to hit with AK?

I raise this flop 100% of time, and if shoved then reevaluate depending on opponent...I've seen too many Ax hands that I dominate (Qx too!) to fold easily.
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10-01-2020 , 03:36 AM
You have all sets, AJ and A6s. Your opponent is deficient in AJo because the offsuit combos can fold, and AQ because some combos will 3b. You should have a very high betting freq in this spot because you have both range and polarity advantage.

Given your hand class you should be shoving the flop with a CR. Villain's are unlikely to value own themselves on any later street broadway or board pair nor continue bluffing so your minimizing your ability to get value from this hand
AK facing turn jam Quote
10-06-2020 , 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatBigRedOne
You have all sets, AJ and A6s. Your opponent is deficient in AJo because the offsuit combos can fold, and AQ because some combos will 3b. You should have a very high betting freq in this spot because you have both range and polarity advantage.

Given your hand class you should be shoving the flop with a CR. Villain's are unlikely to value own themselves on any later street broadway or board pair nor continue bluffing so your minimizing your ability to get value from this hand
Based off history with V, could definitely see him calling with AJo and AQ. I think X/r shove in hindsight might be the play but not sure what I'd get called with outside of AQ, A10, 2p+. V ended up showing AQo after I folded
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10-06-2020 , 05:55 PM
I think you just have to stack off after playing this way. You have so many worse hands that you're already folding and he may have worse value.

I prefer to c-bet the flop and plan to stackoff all runouts. Maybe you are thinking more in dollar amounts and not recognizing that you're fairly shallow? While it's important to recognize that villains may not understand that they should play this as if they're 35 BB deep and range them accordingly, you shouldn't fall into the same trap.

Another way of looking at this is that I don't think the flop check can possibly be better than bet flop, jam turn if you think taking this line wouldn't induce villain to have worse value or many bluffs.
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