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Old 09-17-2014, 03:24 PM   #1
examinedexercises
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AK facing big turn c/raise against bad opponent

1-2 Parx.

You've been playing with villain for about an hour or two. He has been very active, limping a wide range of hands and going to far with weak top type hands post flop. He doesn't seem to adjust his raising range based on opponent's play and his bet sizes- while often decent sized on the flop don't often increase on turn or river play. On a few occasions you've seen him make big AI overbets with the nuts.
Early on you saw him open shove AI for around 90 into a 60sh pot with 97 on a 9XX all spades flop with no spade draw against 3 or 4 opponents.
You also saw him minraise a very nitty woman's large leading bet with 4 straight on board. He showed a weak top pair type hand at show down.

A few rounds ago you doubled through him in the following hand.
a few limpers (including Villain). LP raises. You call in SB.

5 handed. You lead out of the SB for 50 into a 60sh pot on a 789ss board. Folds to villain who instantly shoves AI for 120 total (only 70 more).
You call with TT and he shows KT.

You have, on a few occasions seen him slow play his big hands. But you have also seen him fast play a few too.

Hero has not been very active.

Onto the actual hand.

9 handed.

UTG limps. Hero, UTG+2, raises to 15 with AKo . Villain in SB calls. UTG calls.
3 players. 47 in pot.

K34r. Check check. Hero bets 35. villain calls. EP folds.

2 players 117 in pot

Turn: 6.
Villain checks. Hero bets 80. Villain c/raises AI for 236 total. Hero???

So when I saw that flop my plan was to go for 3 streets of value against villain as I knew he could call me down with weaker kings. I also thought he would call at least two streets with straight draws/ 45/56 type hands.

But I definitely wasn't expecting a c/raise here and, despite how bad he plays, I haven't seen him make this type of big c/raise AI on the turn before.

Thoughts???

Thanks in Advance
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Old 09-17-2014, 03:39 PM   #2
QuadJ
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Re: AK facing big turn c/raise against bad opponent

If his over bets have been the nuts, he probably has a set Some chance of 45/56, but 34/46/57 are also probably in his range. He has to be bluffing or spazz shoving pretty often before calling here is good.

These situations are annoying when he shows garbage, a draw or a worse KX but when he is making pot sized or larger bets, he has to be doing it a lot before calling is +EV. For the most part you should be happy he let you of the hook cheaply in a situation where you have KX a lot more then a straight draw.
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Old 09-17-2014, 04:24 PM   #3
River G
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Re: AK facing big turn c/raise against bad opponent

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Originally Posted by QuadJ View Post
If his over bets have been the nuts, he probably has a set Some chance of 45/56, but 34/46/57 are also probably in his range. He has to be bluffing or spazz shoving pretty often before calling here is good.

These situations are annoying when he shows garbage, a draw or a worse KX but when he is making pot sized or larger bets, he has to be doing it a lot before calling is +EV. For the most part you should be happy he let you of the hook cheaply in a situation where you have KX a lot more then a straight draw.
+1
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Old 09-17-2014, 05:32 PM   #4
PokerIsTooEasy
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Re: AK facing big turn c/raise against bad opponent

Villain being as bad as he is does open his range up some but still think this is mostly K6, sets and straights, so i'd fold here.
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Old 09-17-2014, 06:45 PM   #5
sungar78
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Re: AK facing big turn c/raise against bad opponent

I think the KT c/r hand earlier well illustrates Vil's tendency to over value draws and does a lot to balance his range against only monsters, therefore I don't mind a call here at all. I think he's heavily heavily weighted to 5x hands especially 65 and even when he picks up 2pair we still have decent equity, we're also crushing all non-2pair Kxs. It's tough to make a pair yo, call.
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Old 09-17-2014, 07:38 PM   #6
au4all
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Re: AK facing big turn c/raise against bad opponent

Villain's raise is NOT what I would call an overbet.

On the flop you bet 74% pot. On the turn you bet 68% pot.

Then you get raised 56% pot and call it a big check-raise when Villain's sizing is much smaller than yours and it appeared you wanted to play for stacks.

I'm assuming you were planning on shoving the river, but if you're very confident that the Villain is trying to save you money then you can fold.

I very very rarely, but not never, fold to the exact same bet I was planning on making. It's rarely correct to put in almost half your stack and fold when an apparent blank card comes.
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Old 09-17-2014, 09:47 PM   #7
iraisetoomuch
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Re: AK facing big turn c/raise against bad opponent

Meh.

Against the described villain I have no fold button here.

Call, reload.
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Old 09-18-2014, 09:33 AM   #8
examinedexercises
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Re: AK facing big turn c/raise against bad opponent

Quote:
Originally Posted by au4all View Post
Villain's raise is NOT what I would call an overbet.

On the flop you bet 74% pot. On the turn you bet 68% pot.

Then you get raised 56% pot and call it a big check-raise when Villain's sizing is much smaller than yours and it appeared you wanted to play for stacks.

I'm assuming you were planning on shoving the river, but if you're very confident that the Villain is trying to save you money then you can fold.

I very very rarely, but not never, fold to the exact same bet I was planning on making. It's rarely correct to put in almost half your stack and fold when an apparent blank card comes.
I agree that villain's c.raise can't be considered big in a technical sense. But I do think that for most opponents at 1-2 who don't really count the pot or understand betting sizing, that when they shove AI for 236 here, even though it's "only" 3X my original bet, is huge in their mind.
And that can help reveal the strength of their hand somewhat.
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:19 PM   #9
Troyble
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Re: AK facing big turn c/raise against bad opponent

In practice my flop/turn sizing is probably nearly (if not exactly) identical to yours, but if this isn't a snap call, I think there's a good possibility slightly smaller is better on a board this dry. 30/65 keeps our turn options a little more open with hands like this one, makes our double barrels cheaper, and still allows us to reasonably stuff the river if were so inclined.

I don't think I'm being super results oriented in saying that either. Based on descrip this V is shoving the turn quite a bit more often than most. Just slightly results oriented
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Old 09-18-2014, 06:27 PM   #10
examinedexercises
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Re: AK facing big turn c/raise against bad opponent

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Originally Posted by Troyble View Post
In practice my flop/turn sizing is probably nearly (if not exactly) identical to yours, but if this isn't a snap call, I think there's a good possibility slightly smaller is better on a board this dry. 30/65 keeps our turn options a little more open with hands like this one, makes our double barrels cheaper, and still allows us to reasonably stuff the river if were so inclined.

I don't think I'm being super results oriented in saying that either. Based on descrip this V is shoving the turn quite a bit more often than most. Just slightly results oriented
If we bet 30 on the turn there will be 187 in the pot and 206 behind. A river shove seems too big to often get called by weaker hands.

If we bet 80 there will be 287 in the pot w about 150 behind. If we shove the river then it's onlyslightly bigger than half pot which I think will allow villain to talk him self into a call.


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Old 09-19-2014, 08:01 AM   #11
TeamKB
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Re: AK facing big turn c/raise against bad opponent

need 26.5% equity to call. villain overshoves nuts. villain overshoves tpwk (9xx hand). villaiin overshoves draws (KT on 987 hand). easy as pie call. no thought needed.
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Old 09-19-2014, 08:06 AM   #12
TeamKB
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Re: AK facing big turn c/raise against bad opponent

i think your bet sizing is fine, but if i was going to change it, i would make it bigger, not smaller. hitting TPTK on a dry board against this type of fish isn't where you want to keep pot small for "maneuverability" or "options open". you want to get his stack in the middle. you accomplished that easily by setting up a river all in of about 1/2 pot. i think you could get more on both flop and turn without narrowing his range (ie, i bet his calling range is fairly inelastic here), which means you should be betting bigger.
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