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Old 10-06-2018, 02:28 PM   #1
fi$h
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AK faces c/r on dry board.

Local 1-2 game. Game is pretty good with big stacks at this point.

Hero is UTG-+1 with AKo (450$) I raise to 15$, this table norm is a bit larger, plenty of call happy loose players calling bets. MP calls, HJ calls, SB and BB call.

Pot is 75$ and comes A78r. SB and BB check to me. Seeing how the board is relatively dry I down bet to 25$ to get calls from lower pocket pair or 7s or 8s etc. HJ calls (stack 150$ @ start of hand) and BB check raises(600$@ start) to 75$. Back on me.

HJ is a younger player, doesnt seem to be out of line and from the short play time I have he seems to play solid poker, not any real reads on this player.

BB is also younger guy, comes across as more of a rec player, and is entering more pots overall but seems just like a typical rec player, not many reads on this guy either as Ive never seen him before, he has been sipping on beers the entire time ive been at the table.

With HJ left to act behind with me a short stack, I think a good portion of the time If i call he is just going to commit his stack. I dont feel like raising here is any good, only getting called by better and folding out worse. I just decide to call and if HJ shoves his short stack then at least BB cannot raise again. I just flat call and plan to evaluate turn and HJ ends up folding.

Turn (250$) comes 6, bringing a club draw on board. BB checks to me. This makes me think I might be good here but I elect to check behind. (How is this check?)

River brings another 6. BB takes a moment and bets 100$, back on hero?

I find the line confusing, would he really raise the flop with 2p or sets on a pretty dry board, why would he check those hands on the turn???
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Old 10-06-2018, 11:35 PM   #2
tmo1120
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Re: AK faces c/r on dry board.

I don't like the down bet at all, with so many callers I would not get fancy , you are asking for trouble that way...

.. i would bet turn when checked to ..


i think you played this too passive to have an understanding of where you are in the hand … size up on flop to avoid confusion
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:33 AM   #3
QuadJ
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Re: AK faces c/r on dry board.

Under betting this flop with this many people in it is bad. With that many people in the hand nobody believes your are c-betting air. All you are doing is folding out the various air hands while giving draws a chance to improve cheaply.

The play is weird. Villain has to have a pretty good idea what your hand is. When you check turn he could figure you for a weaker AX and be trying to bet you off. He might have checked a strong hand on the turn hoping to trap or get you to bet. There is an outside chance he has something with a 6 and improved to a big hand on the river.

Calling is really a judgment call. I favor a call just because the bet is small and your hand under represented.
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:01 AM   #4
jarheads0331
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Re: AK faces c/r on dry board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmo1120 View Post
I don't like the down bet at all, with so many callers I would not get fancy , you are asking for trouble that way...

.. i would bet turn when checked to ..


i think you played this too passive to have an understanding of where you are in the hand size up on flop to avoid confusion
I echo this. I hate checking everytime I try to slow play or under rep a hand I begin to lose my grasp at where I am in the hand. The under bet is not good here. I get its a dry board but your offering 3:1 on the first caller, and I guarantee at least one or two others now do the ol "pot odds I have to call" scenario potentially giving them 4 or even 5:1.

If two players call now what? where are you in the hand some guy playing 76s just hit two pair? A6? given your read on BB, Id find a call and say nice hand when he shows a boat or two pair some of the time. But most of the time your going to be good.
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:07 PM   #5
Shai Hulud
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Re: AK faces c/r on dry board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fi$h View Post
Local 1-2 game. Game is pretty good with big stacks at this point.

Hero is UTG-+1 with AKo (450$) I raise to 15$, this table norm is a bit larger, plenty of call happy loose players calling bets. MP calls, HJ calls, SB and BB call.

Pot is 75$ and comes A78r. SB and BB check to me. Seeing how the board is relatively dry I down bet to 25$ to get calls from lower pocket pair or 7s or 8s etc. HJ calls (stack 150$ @ start of hand) and BB check raises(600$@ start) to 75$. Back on me.

HJ is a younger player, doesnt seem to be out of line and from the short play time I have he seems to play solid poker, not any real reads on this player.

BB is also younger guy, comes across as more of a rec player, and is entering more pots overall but seems just like a typical rec player, not many reads on this guy either as Ive never seen him before, he has been sipping on beers the entire time ive been at the table.

With HJ left to act behind with me a short stack, I think a good portion of the time If i call he is just going to commit his stack. I dont feel like raising here is any good, only getting called by better and folding out worse. I just decide to call and if HJ shoves his short stack then at least BB cannot raise again. I just flat call and plan to evaluate turn and HJ ends up folding.

Turn (250$) comes 6, bringing a club draw on board. BB checks to me. This makes me think I might be good here but I elect to check behind. (How is this check?)

River brings another 6. BB takes a moment and bets 100$, back on hero?

I find the line confusing, would he really raise the flop with 2p or sets on a pretty dry board, why would he check those hands on the turn???
If the table norm is larger, why are you betting smaller with AK? You do NOT want 4 calls with AK OOP because you end up in spots like this having no clue if you're good. Make the raise larger, up to whatever is considered normal.

This flop is not dry. The mere absence of a flush draw does not make a flop dry. On A78r villains can have many AX, two OESDs, all 2p combos, as well as several gutshots that might peel. Five ways you are usually ahead right now and will get called by many AX and SDs (there is about 20% chance per player of a SD and 10% TP). So you will get at least one worse call 1 - .7^4 = .76, or about 75%, assuming everyone peels with their draws and TP combos.

There are a lot of bad turns so size up and get value while you can. I would go 50 here.

AP it's hard to know what to do. If you had made a normal sized bet I would tend to fold. With 25 and a caller it's possible BB thinks he's value raising something like AJ, or he could be bluffing something like T9s, but the sizing is on the small side for a bluff. I think this is usually 2p+. There is about a 5% chance per player of flopping 2p+ here. So at least one player has 2p+ about 1 - .95^4 = .185 or roughly 20% of the time. I think this is likely one of those 20% but you are getting 4 to 1 on a call in position.

This hand is going to be tricky to play because of your sizing mistakes, so it may be best to cut your losses now and fold. This is especially true if we expect BB to lead the turn. If we plan to fold OTT we should just go ahead and fold.

If we think he checks pretty often and are confident we won't make bigger mistakes then calling is fine.

Now the turn A876cc this is not a good card for you at all. Villain's most likely bluff (98) got there. We can't infer a lot from his check. He might have 2p and is scared of the straight. He could have a worse A and is pot controlling. He could have 65 and decides to x to get to showdown. He could be planning another checkraise. It's very hard to tell because of your bet sizing OTF. But we should definitely check behind. I don't think we can get better hands to fold by betting, and while a few worse AX hands may call a bet, villain has a lot of 2p+ where we could be value owning ourselves. So check back is fine.

Now the river A8766cc board is also not a great card for you as the other flop bluff, 65, also gets there. We did counterfeit 87 though so it's not the worst card. Now what hands would we expect villain to lead 100 into 250 here? AX? Maybe...the way the hand is played you are slightly underrepped but 1/2 players do not value bet this thinly, if he even thinks AX is ahead which is not likely. His range should be nothing but A7 or better, or a bluff. But it is hard for him to have bluffs here because the two main flop bluffs (T9 and 65) got there by the river, as did 54. JT is slightly possible but checkraising a gutshot is pretty unusual. No, I think villain's bluffs are almost exactly 87 here. He got counterfeited, puts you on an Ace, and decides to bluff a scary board. Possible.

So do we call? There are only 9 combos of 87, 2 if he only plays 87s. We are getting 3.5 to 1 so only need to win 22%. But is he betting a worse hand that often? I doubt it. Still, I would tank and try to get a read. Without a read I think we should fold.

Note how much easier the hand would have been to play if we had sized larger preflop to thin the field, and sized larger OTF. Due to the small flop bet into 4 people, we look pretty weak and BB's range becomes much harder to define. As such we are pretty lost for the rest of the hand.
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:47 PM   #6
6bet me
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Re: AK faces c/r on dry board.

Preflop: Well played.

Flop: I prefer to bet like $40 here, since we're 5ways and there's basically no airball bluffs in our range anyway, so betting larger with a more polarised range (straight draws and TPGK+) is generally the way to go here. And if we get x/raised after betting $40, it makes it a much easier fold for us. As played, I'm almost always flatting the x/r. I see no reason to 3bet the flop this deep.

Turn: We can either bet/fold like $100 here, or we can simply check back and call safe rivers. Either is fine.

River: Always calling this. There's plenty of AQ we beat and AK we chop against. We've also underrepresented our hand a lot.
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Old 10-09-2018, 07:05 AM   #7
fi$h
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Re: AK faces c/r on dry board.

Results were that I called and he had AQ.
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Old 10-09-2018, 07:58 AM   #8
Shai Hulud
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Re: AK faces c/r on dry board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me View Post
Preflop: Well played.

Flop: I prefer to bet like $40 here, since we're 5ways and there's basically no airball bluffs in our range anyway, so betting larger with a more polarised range (straight draws and TPGK+) is generally the way to go here. And if we get x/raised after betting $40, it makes it a much easier fold for us. As played, I'm almost always flatting the x/r. I see no reason to 3bet the flop this deep.

Turn: We can either bet/fold like $100 here, or we can simply check back and call safe rivers. Either is fine.

River: Always calling this. There's plenty of AQ we beat and AK we chop against. We've also underrepresented our hand a lot.
Spewy advice all around.

There is no need to c bet polarized in a 1/2 game 5 ways to the flop. Our c bet range should be linear.

Bet/folding a turn that made a 3 straight vs a guy who just checkraised us is idiotic.

Plenty of AK AQ? There's max 14 combos if he always flats these hands preflop, and check raises TPGK freaking 5 ways. Typical 1/2 villains do not play TPGK like this. I would heavily discount these hands especially AK, results notwithstanding. Even if we give him a bunch of AQ+ combos there are far more combos that beat us, and unlike AQ+ it actually makes more sense for villain to play this way. For example I would not be surprised at all to see A8 A7 A6 here and that's 24 combos right there. Add 6 likely sets and 48 straights villain may play like this.

Donking AQ after getting your checkraise called on a board with several completed draws where hero can have most of the nutted hands (and obviously AQ+) is just terrible. If villain is a spewtard I guess we can happily call it off but if he has a functioning brain at all we should be folding absent a live read.
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