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Old 03-18-2019, 08:07 PM   #1
djevans
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AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

Table is a little 3bet happy - Got stacked for my first buy in with AdKd after I open to $15 and get 3bet - we get it in pre and he has TT and I brick.

Hero UTG $2000 - Opens AKo to $15

Villain $2500 flats - He has made some pretty wild plays. He check raised 5h6h on a 246r board to $200 after someone bet $75.

He also opens pretty wide and has been 3betting a lot.

4 other villains flat - surprisingly.

$90 A92

Hero leads $50
Villain calls
Rest fold

$190

7
Hero leads $125
Villain calls

$440


6
Hero???

I end up in these spots a lot and always feel like it's never great. I don't like betting as the best hand I have here is AA and I think I lose value by checking but hard to go 3 streets with 1 pair.
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:19 PM   #2
QuantumSurfer
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

This deep, we're opening very small pre, aren't we? There's incentive for others to call wide since their implied odds increase. Anyways, I like our sizing on all streets, and now I'd b/f ~275 trying to target his Ax combos, of which he has a lot. Vs someone more competent, I might check this dry ass flop, or pot control turn with a check.
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:41 PM   #3
BackDoorFlush
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

I would checking, to call obviously, two out of three streets versus this guy. If a guy likes blasting post, then let's give him some rope (we really don't want to get raised on this board, anyway).

As played, c/c.
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:49 PM   #4
Amanaplan
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

Have to show this down. Check and call. If he bets 500 call. If he shoves, fold. If he checks, you win. Checking might induce something so its not like you're not getting value.
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:00 PM   #5
DON'T_touch_ME
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

Does V call wide pre or is he just wide as pf aggressor? Either way I think this is a clear b/f. The wider his pf calling range the smaller I would make the bet as I wouldn't want to fold out AT, etc with a large bet. If his of calling range is fairly tight I would bomb it.

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Old 03-18-2019, 09:02 PM   #6
RottPhiler
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

Check-call.
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:52 PM   #7
samo
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

Given his image, C/C. Vs. a more ABC opponent, $190.
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:57 PM   #8
Avaritia
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

Check flop. As played check turn. As played check river.
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:01 PM   #9
Koss
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

Check/call seems standard. I might do it on the turn on these dry ass boards too. I think he won't be able to resist betting an A or bluffing if he's floating light.

I am somewhat curious what some GTO solvers do in spots like these. We need some sort of betting range on this river, and it seems like AK could be a decent part of that.
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:22 PM   #10
DON'T_touch_ME
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

What is the reasoning behind so many of you advocating for a check on this river? I know that checking can induce against an aggro fish but he has Ax here so often that we are missing value as I think he just takes a showdown here most of the time we are ahead and bets when we are behind (which isn't very often imo).

Edit- I also don't see him having many hands here that he can turn into a bluff. Maybe 88/TT, but I don't think that can justify a check.
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:58 PM   #11
WereBeer
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

I'd much rather x/c a 'wild' player who may very stab with busted draws than bet and either fold out his air or worse, allow a raise that I'm going to sigh fold to.
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:48 AM   #12
DON'T_touch_ME
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

On lots of boards I think that would be the best thing to do, but this board is so dry what air and busted draws does he have? Yeah he may be kind of a wild player but op didn't say he was a total maniac whale. He would have to be in order to get here with total air. I don't think we almost ever get raised by worse, and I certainly think A8/AT-AJ/A2s-A5s, all check back river at a pretty high frequency.

And what missed draws can he have? Do we really think he is floating T8 second to act in a 6way pot?

Maybe I'm missing something in which case I would really like someone to explain it to me.

Btw I am advocating a b/f. If we aren't capable of folding if we get raised here I think x/c is best. I just don't think we are almost ever getting bluff raised on this river after 4 streets of aggression, even with V's description.

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Old 03-19-2019, 01:51 AM   #13
El bastardo
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

$950/fold OTR.
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:06 AM   #14
overun
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Check flop. As played check turn. As played check river.
Ava if you check flop, I'm assuming we're going b/b on turn river?

Also, if you b flop and turn goes check check, are you betting river or checking again?

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Old 03-19-2019, 11:18 AM   #15
shorn7
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Check flop. As played check turn. As played check river.
I think I like this. Flop is uber dry, so this looks like a good spot to go for the delayed c-bet and get our 2 streets OTT and OTR.
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:07 PM   #16
RottPhiler
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

In these spots I prefer to get our two streets on the flop and the turn, and possibly a third street too by inducing creative villains. An ace is never folding, and if we check the river, the ace might get creative.
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:45 PM   #17
Spanishmoon
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

Quote:
Originally Posted by RottPhiler View Post
In these spots I prefer to get our two streets on the flop and the turn, and possibly a third street too by inducing creative villains. An ace is never folding, and if we check the river, the ace might get creative.
^This.

I'm seeing more wise-ass LAGs float flop/turn to set up creative river bluffs lately here in the northeast. This runout was pretty dry, so V may not get as creative as H might hope.
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:04 PM   #18
DON'T_touch_ME
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

Quote:
Originally Posted by RottPhiler View Post
In these spots I prefer to get our two streets on the flop and the turn, and possibly a third street too by inducing creative villains. An ace is never folding, and if we check the river, the ace might get creative.
Don't you think we will get the same value by betting the river ourselves? I don't think getting blown off the best hand here is a concern and we get the same value from Ax if he gets creative that we would from letting him fire to a check, which I don't think he does as often as people ITT seem to think.

I still can't understand why anyone thinks anything other than bet/bet/bet is the best line here.

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Old 03-19-2019, 01:16 PM   #19
Avaritia
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

Quote:
Originally Posted by overun View Post
Ava if you check flop, I'm assuming we're going b/b on turn river?

Also, if you b flop and turn goes check check, are you betting river or checking again?

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Basically when we take a flop 5 ways unless I flop a set or a flush or something close to the nuts I am immediately going into showdown mode. Meaning, especially on a flop like this, our equity is pretty much static and few turns rivers are going to change it. This is especially true when deep and multiway, we really just want to get to showdown.

This sounds weak but itís actually the opposite. We can essentially check/never fold, as opposed to betting into 17 people and bloating a pot with an obvious top pair and having to fold vs a raise (which we definitely would have to fold if raised).
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:35 PM   #20
mdelore
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Re: AK deep 2/5 Best course of action

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Check flop. As played check turn. As played check river.
+1 to this and the reasoning provided. Check turn is less controversial than check flop, we very seldom get raised on flop and we definitely get value from worse. Being deep makes me want to check flop more and get to showdown as ava said though.

Might actually be fine to check entire range on this flop. Check and get to showdown in this spot in agro thinking games is good and in more passive stationy games I think b/x/b is good.
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