Played yesterday at a few rooms in AC. 2 hands stuck out, and I wanted to know what others think.

Room 1 late morning - What started as a short handed rock garden has now opened up to to a few splashy semi-regs (based on conversations they were having with staff and other players) with big stacks.

There is a straddle, and first to act raises (small) gets a few callers and the flop comes Ace high with a flush and straight draw. PFR bets the flop, gets raised by a splashy player and calls. The turn and river are blanks. PFR bets the turn and shoves the river. PFR shows AK, loses to flopped bottom 2.


Room 3 - An after dinner table, with some short stacks (under 100), but mostly normal (250-400) ones. EP raises Pre, MP calls. Flop King high with flush and straight draws. EP bets the flop and turn. River completes a straight draw, EP check calls the shove. EP shows AK, loses to rivered straight.


Is stacking off 100BB-ish with AK that flops TPTK standard?

The first hand, PFR could have checked the turn after getting x/r on flop. Find a fold when MP bets the turn?

The second hand, PFR could have shoved the turn (ap bet 100 on flop, and 100 on turn)

Is it just a bad case of AK getting 'unlucky'? Results oriented much?

Bad preflop raise sizing?

I sort of understand denying the proper odds for people to set-mine or play suited connectors. Raise enough that they can't win enough to justify the play. Even when they do call and win, it's still the right move.


The first step seems easy, raise more preflop.

Do the hands play the same when IP vs OOP?

I get that it's OK to get bluffed off TPTK. If you never get bluffed, you are calling too much.

Loose preflop doesn't mean continuing with nothing post-flop.
First room splashy player could have just as easily been on the draw like 2nd room player, this time the draw doesn't get there.

Second room player played suited connectors, flopped a OESD and flush draw. Was a favorite on the flop when EP bet 100. Had the right odds on the turn when EP bets 100 again.


A big wall of streaming thoughts, cleaned up just a little before posting. Yes, I get that it was just 2 hands. Yes, I'm also aware that I don't see how often AK makes the raise, fires and takes it down. No, I wasn't AK in both hands.

Looking forward to comments, and some more reading (forum and book).

Will give a response that might not be helpful … it depends on several factors, likely the opponent being the most critical. If you can provide more details like effective stacks, stakes, player images, board texture, etc., you might attract more reads/replies.

e.g. AK hand … vs. a stationy, loose opponent, getting 3 streets of value or even a double-up is very possible. Vs. a more skilled opponent, likely getting 2 if that.

Thanks samo. It was a long day that started and ended with a drive along the GSP. A lot of things went right, but those 2 hands stood out to me.

I'll try to add relevant info, there is more upon request.

Hand 1.

Hero (AK) - UTG+1 MAWG. Started the hand with 400-ish. Mostly passive play. Stack started at 200, chipped up a little with the OMCs, doubled up with AA on a passively called hand with a lucky river.

Villain (74) - CO MABG. Started the hand with 350-ish. Seemed loose preflop, called most c-bets, raised or folded most turn bets. Very comfortable at the table, menu for food in hand, stack of greens to buy-in.

UTG is a YBG, has moved to the table from another table, with 1k ish, very aggressive. Another player has taken a good portion of his chips calling bluffs. Most of the table has simply stayed out of his way.

UTG and CO have straddled a couple of times. UTG straddles this hand. Action to UTG+1 who raises to 15. A few calls, and it's 4 to the flop.

Flop is A74
With about $55 in the pot H bets 35, V raises to 75, Hero calls. HU to turn.

Turn 2
With about $205 in the pot, H bets 100, V calls.

River J
Hero shoves. V calls. Hero shows AK, V shows 2pr.




Hand 2

Hero (AK) - $450 - OWG. Tight preflop and aggressive post. May benefit from fitting the OMC mold, but it's after dinner, and there is no coffee. Has won pots with solid starting hands, cbets a lot, checks a lot of turns and rivers (pot control?). Was recently criticized for not value betting the river with his 2nd nut flush, by the guy 3 seats to his left (7 seat and 10 seat) who had broadway and insisted it was possible that he held the only hand that would have called a river bet. Unsure if this factored into his play.


Villain (65) - YWG ($400) - Wireless earbuds, GF behind, watching something on his phone. Appears TAG, has played few hands, with aggression. Deliberate actions, has a fold button.


Villain in LP raises to 20. Hero in BB raises to 55. V calls.

Flop K87
($110 in pot) Hero bets 100. V calls

Turn 2
($185) H bets 100. V calls.

River 4
Hero checks. V shoves. H calls. V shows the straight. H mutters, shows.

What's the suits of your AK? As well, what exact hands did V show?

Hand 1: H: AK V:74

Hand 2: H: AK V:65


Easier to consider AK to be hero hands, only one was my actual hand though.

Am I misreading the pot amounts in hand 2? By the turn, shouldn’t the pot be $310 with V having $245 left? This makes the turn a pretty clear shove, no?

Nope, my mistake. I worked forwards and backwards to reconstruct. Made an error and will fix in a few.

Yes, the turn bet of 100 seemed to be pot committing.

Fixing Hand 2

Hand 2

Hero (AK) - $450 - OWG. Tight preflop and aggressive post. May benefit from fitting the OMC mold, but it's after dinner, and there is no coffee. Has won pots with solid starting hands, cbets a lot, checks a lot of turns and rivers (pot control?). Was recently criticized for not value betting the river with his 2nd nut flush, by the guy 3 seats to his left (7 seat and 10 seat) who had broadway and insisted it was possible that he held the only hand that would have called a river bet. Unsure if this factored into his play.


Villain (65) - YWG ($400) - Wireless earbuds, GF behind, watching something on his phone. Appears TAG, has played few hands, with aggression. Deliberate actions, has a fold button.


Villain in LP raises to 20. Hero in BB raises to 55. V calls.

Flop K87
($110 in pot) Hero bets 100. V calls

Turn 2
($310) H bets 100. V calls.

River 4
Hero checks. V shoves. H calls. V shows the straight. H mutters, shows.



On the Turn:
Hero has about 300, Villain about 250. Pot is around 300.
Hero bets 100. V calls.

On the River;
Hero has about 200 left, V about 150. Pot is 500-ish
Hero checks. V shoves about 1/3 PSB. H calls.

Hero should have 3! 65 PF, flop 100, stuff turn. Curious why the turn bet was sized so small. By betting $100 you’re giving good odds to draws and leave V with 145 on the river so you’re forced to call him regardless of what the card is. With less than a PSB on the turn, you should shove it in and let V decide if he wants to call and put in $400 with K high.

Yes, it appears that Hero who is OOP for the hand needs to bet bigger preflop.

Just a guess, but I think Hero thought 100 was enough value. Possible he thought that the 100 was as good as 200 or a shove there?

Does this V ever show up with 87, play the same way and get the same result? Is there a point that we should check with "just one pair"? Does is matter when we check, or that we are IP or OOP?

100 is definitely NOT as good as a above imo. Betting 100 means V is getting 4-1 direct odds, but it’s really even better than that because if he hits his hand, the pot will be huge and you’re not gonna fold in an $700 pot for $150. So, he’s actually getting like 6-1. ADDITIONALLY, it allows him to play perfectly. He’s calling with correct odds on his draw and if he misses, he’s not putting in another dollar.

Compare this with shoving for $245 into a $310 pot on the turn. With this line V is only getting 2.2-1 on his call and thus has to decide on making an incorrect call with king high with one card to come or fold his 15 outs after putting 1/3 of his stack in the middle. It’s a no win situation.

Agreed that by betting small on the turn in Hand 2, Hero allows V to play it perfectly.

Agreed it's tougher for V to play when the turn is shoved. In this exact case, I'm not sure that V calls.

I didn't have this V on a range that included SC, but I guess the 3! wasn't enough to chase V preflop. Once the flop hits, and V calls the hundy the range gets a little more defined.

Without judging, we're stacking off with TPTK here. It's a 1/2 game, so 175BB effective stacks.

How much impact does IP vs OOP have here? Are we continuing to fire each street with a flush draw and straight draw out there?

If IP, do we check behind on the flop or turn? Assume if IP that V shoves the river if it's not already all-in.

V put in over 10% of his stack preflop and over a third is in by the turn. The turn is a safe card. If it wasn’t, you could check and evaluate. The strength of your one pair is relative. It depends on board texture, your V’s range, etc.

On both hands, I considered both flops 'wet', with the flush and straight draws. Although neither turn card completed those draws, I didn't think the boards were safe enough to check. (NB at this point I'll speak as if I'm each hero).

Perhaps the indecision of not knowing who was drawing and who was made is the difficulty of poker and playing.

Hand 1, a check might be bet anyway, results likely the same.

Hand 2, a check will probably be checked behind. Hero likely to fire this river and get raised anyway. Unlikely that H can b/f with stack sizes and pot size.

UTG isn't a good aggressive player, he is a spewy lagtard who calls pre way too loose and straddles alot. He's a gambler.

Very apparent when he shown up with 74o UTG

I think it would be difficult to assign him a range because he's wayyy too loose.

I would assume the FLUSH draw is just a small portion of his preflop calling range, and he got lucky OTF

What we could have done is to raise preflop bigger, maybe 20 to 25 or even 30 depending on how big the amount it would take to go headsup or at most 3 way at the table you are playing

I would cbet big, like 50 if the pot is 55.

TURN is a brick, bet big again and shove it in OTR.

Preflop raise is too small. I would raise to 80 or 100, even. If V would fold preflop.


Flop comes TPTK

Pot : 160$

I'll probably bet 130$.

V calls 130$

TURN : brick

Pot : 420$

Effective stack OTT : 190$

Hero should shove

So splashy and loose are a nicer way of saying spewy lagtard. Except he's now sitting with a big stack of chips and only 1 sheriff with bullets to stand up to him.


Perhaps the larger preflop bets get them off hands. In this hand, when V flops 2 pair on the A-high flop, the chips are going in.
V calls 20, IP, with 350. Hoping to flop great and stack H getting 17.5:1, good for set mining, bad for sc and worse. Maybe just planning to outplay with position?

Considering the straddle, effective stack is under 100BB. We're going to shovel all the chips in with TPTK happily. The fact that we're outflopped is just the wrong end of variance.


Same MO. Can V call big of a PFR IP? With $400 (200BB) effective, the raise to $80, means calling $60 more to hope to win $400, less odds than set mining. Again, V perhaps planning to outplay H, using position or a lucky flop?