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AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM

01-15-2017 , 09:40 AM
So the action has been nice at the new MGM in MD & I have played 2/5 3 times now. Although the max buy-in is 1k, most players are sitting with $500-$700 & I buy-in for $500 due to the size of my bankroll.

ES - $595 Players have me covered, sitting on around $625. I've had to top off twice & I'm in the game for $550.00. Have only been playing about an hour. 9 handed.
UTG: - As mentioned above, he is tight & also aggressive. I've played with him before. Most o/r at the table come in at around $20 - $25 & can expect 1-3 callers.
Button: Will usually call from the Button vs. EP o/r to see a flop. Is not sticky & have never seen him spaz. He plays quite well postflop & appears comfortable at the table.

OTTH: UTG opens for $30 & it's folded to the Button who calls. SB folds.
Since I put UTG on a tight range, I don't think I can 3-bet in this situation & I think it makes it a call or fold situation. AK is too strong of a hand to fold & UTG could be o/r with TT+; AJs; AQo, KQs so I call with AK


Flop: [$92] 542

I check, UTG bets $60, the Button folds. I think this flop is a decent candidate for a c/r since I have a BDFD, gutshot & 2 overs, but I also think it plays well as a c/c as it's less expensive & my ace high could be good here if my opponent c-bets his AQ & AJ hands.

Since he bet so much pre, it led me to believe he wasn't looking for a multi-way pot & TT, JJ was a strong possibility.

Turn: $212 542K

I elect to check again & allow UTG to continue with the initiative. Since I've shown no initiative thus far, I believe he will fire a 2nd barrel at this board.

UTG bets $80 & when he bet so small like this, I seriously considered a c/r but my concern was that UTG could very well be betting TT-QQ trying to get thin value & if I raise I may lose a street of value that I could potentially get OTR. So I call.

River: $370 542K9

I check again & UTG bets $150 this time. If UTG doesn't open for $30 with 5s or 4s, the only hands that beat me are AA & 99, a total of 6 combos. However, at the time I viewed his bet of <1/2 pot as a value bet. My A blocks so many flush draw bluffs that I conclude that I am losing, chopping, or he has KQs. So I call & he turns over KQ

So the only reason I made money on the hand is because he remained aggressive, but I don't see how my taking over the initiative could help unless I go for a c/r OTR but then I have to be prepared for a re-raise. If I had c/r the Turn I wonder if he would not have put in a substantial 3! with TPGK & 2nd nut flush draw. If he did, I'd have to call, as his small bet OTT doesn't appear to be AA since I called the Flop & checked the Turn when the 3rd didn't come.

Comments on my thought process appreciated
AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM Quote
01-15-2017 , 10:24 AM
with 100BB and a player who is capable of opening KdQd UTG you can just 3bet this hand for value pre flop especially with the BTN call. I would go $130-$150 range and be looking to get it in on most flops except for maybe a 678 monotone flop. AK plays terrible multiway and you want to get it heads up. Had you been deeper, it gets a little tricky playing AK OOP but with $500 - $600 i'm in no mood to just call pre flop.

If he is an unknown player who you said is tight and has been folding all night I can get on board with just calling, but I don't think you are going to win much if an A or K flops unless he has exactly KQ or AQ.

Flop call is pretty bad, i'd just check fold.

Turn - you turned absolute gin. It's a hand he can rep, and a card you should almost never have. Not sure if he is thinking on this level, but i'm defiantly on board with check calling and check calling all rivers.

The only reason you made money on this hand was because you absolutely coolered him. Had the turn come any other card except for the K you would of made no $$$ and probably check folded a card that isn't an A or 3. A diamond would of most likely cost you more, and I expect him to barrel almost any turn card that isn't an A / 3 or 6 no diamond. He should absolutely be value betting his hand, and he should have you beat a high % of the time.

Your check / call line was fine on turn and river.
AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM Quote
01-15-2017 , 12:58 PM
I'm not sure about your play here. It certainly worked for you, but ...

I probably would have 3! pre flop. Against the UTG raiser, you're ahead of most of his range (53/42). As it is, you're 71% with AdKc vs KdQd. Would he have called with KdQd? Probably. So, I would have 3! to about $120 and fold out the BTN.

On the flop, bet 1/2 the pot (roughly $140).
AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM Quote
01-15-2017 , 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djevans
AK plays terrible multiway and you want to get it heads up.
Where are you getting this from? Most if your value from AK comes in multi way pots, especially deep stacked in position. AK has to be the most misplayed hand in NLHE.
AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM Quote
01-15-2017 , 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardball47
Where are you getting this from? Most if your value from AK comes in multi way pots, especially deep stacked in position. AK has to be the most misplayed hand in NLHE.
I would like to see some analysis/statistics as to why because I find that being deep multi way with AK is...... not good.
AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM Quote
01-15-2017 , 01:37 PM
The first thing to think about is what is his 3bet calling range with this hand. If he and the button are are going to fold the majority of their range (let's say everything but QQ+, AK), then 3betting is better. AK is one of those hands that you really don't want to play a lot of streets with just TP oop without initiative. I'm good with folding to the 4 bet or collecting the pot on the flop.

Flop call is good, you still have over 50% equity with his range, which he should be cbetting most of it. Once you have TP, you're crushing his flop range. You're behind his turn betting range if he has at least TP, but not by much. The cheap bet prices you in.

The river is a blank at this point, so you're getting pot odds to call with your equity. Overall, I like how you played it post flop. Any raise was just going to have him fold anything worse and call/raise with better. However, pf should have been a 3bet. This is why initiative is important. You could have earned more chips if you were setting the price instead of accepting it.
AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM Quote
01-15-2017 , 01:45 PM
I'd 3! pre to around $100. Villains generally don't fire out such a big open with KK+ and you have blockers. Btn likely doesn't have a premium either or he would have 3! himself. AK looks pretty good again both players' ranges and I would 3! for value.

As played, you should c/f the flop. You don't have IO on the gut shot or runner-runner 4-flush because it's so obvious. Floating oop in a low SPR pot generally isn't a good idea.

The turn illustrates why floating oop sucks. You likely have the best hand. Do you bet for value? You hand becomes somewhat face up and most worse hands fold. Checking risks a check through by all hands you jumped ahead of, like JJ/QQ. These hands also fold to a check-raise.

Check-call is probably the best line. I'd c/r shove if villain had more draws in his range. You block AdXd. The only worse hand that calls a c/r is KdQd. One freaking combo.
AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM Quote
01-15-2017 , 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
Flop call is good, you still have over 50% equity with his range, which he should be cbetting most of it. Once you have TP, you're crushing his flop range. You're behind his turn betting range if he has at least TP, but not by much. The cheap bet prices you in
Disagree. Hero chops vs. a significant chunk of villain's range. There is some RIO against AA/KK. Villain's worse hands like QQ/JJ rarely put more money in the pot if an A,K, or 3 hit the turn. Very low IO, high chop %, and some RIO makes this a fold, imo, especially oop.

It turns out hero caught the bottom of villain's UTG range and he raises a little looser than expected. If Villain's triple barrel range is AA/KK/AK/KQs, then hero wins 2, loses 4, and chops the rest. -EV play.
AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM Quote
01-15-2017 , 02:10 PM
Raising at any point in this hand is a bluff. You can 3-bet pre-flop, but it isn't for value unless UTG is a fish. Folding the flop is terrible, IMO. This hand is a good candidate to raise the flop with. You block the NFD, AA/KK and have overs/GS/BDFD to his other pairs. His range is capped and yours isn't if he doesn't open small pairs preflop. I think raise>call>fold flop.
AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM Quote
01-15-2017 , 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jc315
I would like to see some analysis/statistics as to why because I find that being deep multi way with AK is...... not good.
I'll find the external link and pm it to you when I get home.
AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM Quote
01-15-2017 , 03:27 PM
You guys are out of your minds w/ 3! pre
AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM Quote
01-15-2017 , 03:38 PM
Hey guys,
thats a very common spot for me I struggle with a lot against tight players in my games.

I'd like to encourage the discussion again for solving the situation of having premium highcards (AK, AKs, AQ, AQs) when facing a big open from a tight player (or very early position).

Lets assume 100bb.
And a tightish player raises 5x from UTG.
In my games, a bigger-than-normal open often is a strong hand.
Regulars also do it, assuming the fish dont exploit it and a reg rarly is able to exploit it having 3-4 callers in between all the time anyway.
Which of these 4 hands do you 3bet and why?
What is you gameplan when getting called or jammed on?
which hands do you call? How do you proceede on certain flops?

In my games, 3betting an UTG open from a reg is a bluff.
No decent player(at least in my games) would call KQo here, since its dominated to often by the 3! range.
calling range of regs is probably 99+, AQs+and we have like 49% against that range and we are also oop.

So you we could 3! as a bluff here to get villian to fold JJ- (maybe even QQ).
You could also say, raising just ends the hand if we are ahead with nice dead money.
Do you concider folding after 3! to like 20x and get jammed on, assuming you are up against KK/AA?

Lets also discuss scenarios for flatting.
AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM Quote
01-15-2017 , 04:28 PM
3 betting preflop is an option, calling is not bad either IMO. Your play on the flop was dubious, it was likely a C/F given that you kept that the pot small preflop. Here is why I think C/C on the flop is not a good idea:
1. You are OOP against an aggr player with not much value. Also, you with 212 in the pot, you would mostly need to make a decision for your stack by the turn which would be difficult. Did you have a clear plan what you would do to win the pot if you didn't hit the turn given the villian image/range? C/C on the flop and C/F on the turn is generally not profitable here. C/R on the flop would be fine on a deeper stack, but here, any bluff raise postflop gets you pot-committed as an underdog good % of times.
2. You are basically planning to bluff catch with this line most of the times with V's range (except for small % of times like Ks on the turn as it happened where you have a showdown value).
As played, C/C turn and C/C river looks fine given that you have enough showdown value.
AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM Quote
01-16-2017 , 03:09 AM
Lead river for $275. I'd also lead turn if you're going to call flop.
AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM Quote
01-16-2017 , 07:47 AM
Why lead turn? I think TT-QQ probably isn't calling turn and river anyways. If turn goes c/c you can bet big and rep missed fdraw and get calls from TT-QQ. The rest of his range your basically freerolling bluffs and worse hands. The K is a great card for him to barrel if he's got AQ, AJ etc.

You block AA and KK so you're basically crushing his overall range on the turn. Why lead turn and river? I don't understand.
AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM Quote
01-16-2017 , 08:57 AM
How is folding flop reasonable at all? We rarely have less than ~40% equity and the best hand often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nice_Guy_Eddie
Disagree. Hero chops vs. a significant chunk of villain's range. There is some RIO against AA/KK. Villain's worse hands like QQ/JJ rarely put more money in the pot if an A,K, or 3 hit the turn. Very low IO, high chop %, and some RIO makes this a fold, imo, especially oop.

It turns out hero caught the bottom of villain's UTG range and he raises a little looser than expected. If Villain's triple barrel range is AA/KK/AK/KQs, then hero wins 2, loses 4, and chops the rest. -EV play.
Why would QQ/JJ fold when an A/K come out? Why would you think villain wouldn't raise KQs UTG? If we can not continue on a good flop for us because we are doing so badly against villain's range we should just fold pre.

Last edited by browni3141; 01-16-2017 at 09:08 AM.
AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM Quote
01-19-2017 , 10:00 PM
push
AK in BB vs. Tight UTG 2/5NL @ The MGM Quote

      
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