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Old 04-19-2019, 09:27 PM   #1
budfox89
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AJs versus TAG 3-bet from SB. Does flopping TP have any value at all? $1/3

Hero has $270. Running pretty bad. Had to top off a couple times and just got bluffed off a hand 20 mins ago. On tilt a bit and maybe the table knows.

V1 is mid-30s, Asian guy. Seems like a good, patient TAG player. Watching TV on his tablet and only seems to get involved with the best hand. He has $600 and would have even more if he wasn't sucked out earlier.

V2 has $200 and seems loose. Getting involved in a lot of hands, doesn't seem like the best player. OTTH

V2 UTG straddles to $6. Folded to Hero in MP2 with AhJh. I raised up to $20. V1 3-bets it up to $50 from the SB. Given his style and position, his range should be really tight. 99+, AQo, ATs. Might not even be that wide for the suited aces.

V1 calls and I called. With $120 in the pot, I thought it was ok to call another $30 with the suited A but maybe I should have folded here given the villain's range?

Flop Jc 7s 2d ($150). V1 bets $100 and V2 folds. I have $220 left. Your move?
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:48 PM   #2
KID777777
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Re: AJs versus TAG 3-bet from SB. Does flopping TP have any value at all? $1/3

Fold pre, you flopped tptk with this stack depth and still have no idea whether you are ahead
AP, will this tag V give up ott with his air, or keep on barrelling?
Either call/call or fold now, likely fold since he is betting strong OOP with loose V in the hand
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Old 04-20-2019, 01:56 PM   #3
budfox89
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Re: AJs versus TAG 3-bet from SB. Does flopping TP have any value at all? $1/3

Yeah it seems like the best move is to just avoid the trouble spots in the first place, by folding preflop.

I can see why so many people on the forum hate AJ!
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Old 04-20-2019, 07:54 PM   #4
Amanaplan
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Re: AJs versus TAG 3-bet from SB. Does flopping TP have any value at all? $1/3

Gordon Gekko says dump it.

Don't get sandbagged on BlueStar Airlines.
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Old 04-20-2019, 08:47 PM   #5
MikeStarr
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Re: AJs versus TAG 3-bet from SB. Does flopping TP have any value at all? $1/3

Hes not raising a $20 raise to just $50 OOP with the range you gave him. He would go bigger most of the time with AK, 99, ATs type hands. That's if he even 3 bets lighter than QQ+ at all.

This is gonna be AA-QQ almost always. When they make a raise small enough that they want you to call, dont call...unless you have a hand that can bust them up and you are deeper. Like J9s and things like that.
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Old 04-20-2019, 09:45 PM   #6
Amanaplan
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Re: AJs versus TAG 3-bet from SB. Does flopping TP have any value at all? $1/3

Just the wrong kind of equity to call even with the spot calling the straddle. I almost want to jam pre tbh with the AA blocker (I chuckled inside a little because I just might do it so the iPad warrior cant auto-stack the fish).
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Old 04-20-2019, 10:30 PM   #7
ES2
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Re: AJs versus TAG 3-bet from SB. Does flopping TP have any value at all? $1/3

After v2 calls, I think you can call. You are 22% against a range of AA and KK.

I understand you will not always get to realize that. But, you're IP and can fold here in scenarios like this postflop. Plus, sometimes you can win a lot from the bad player.

I agree that AJ is kind of a crummy hand to have, but when you do flop top pair it should be pretty easy to play. (fold here.)

V1 is going to be kind of handcuffed here betting into 2 people in a 3 bet pot. I expect him to be pretty straightforward. Especially because V2 doesn't like to fold, has cold called a 3! and only has like 1 pot sized bet. It's not a very good spot to bluff.

Let's give v1 some credit. Maybe he is able to recognize that you are attacking a bad player's straddle, especially when on tilt. He probably thought his $50 could push V2 out. Maybe his range is not just ultra premiums. One thing I notice is that sometimes V sees a spot to make a play but bets too small because he doesn't want to lose a lot when it doesn't work. So, I think sometimes you will not be up against KK+ or QQ+ here.

One reason "always top up" is a false religion is that we are sometimes on tilt when it's time to top up and/or have a bad image. While you and I are the only two players on this forum who ever tilt, perhaps it would be wise to at least wait a few rounds to top up in the future. While you're waiting, someone might make a terrible call against your short stack, with your losing image, and top you up for free.
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Old 04-21-2019, 03:04 PM   #8
SameRiverTwice
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Re: AJs versus TAG 3-bet from SB. Does flopping TP have any value at all? $1/3

dude has a fish behind him, he's not messing around. leave the table if you can't find a fold pre here, it's not even remotely close.
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Old 04-21-2019, 06:16 PM   #9
KID777777
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Re: AJs versus TAG 3-bet from SB. Does flopping TP have any value at all? $1/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan View Post
Gordon Gekko says dump it.

Don't get sandbagged on BlueStar Airlines.
lol
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Old 04-21-2019, 06:56 PM   #10
Ray Zee
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Re: AJs versus TAG 3-bet from SB. Does flopping TP have any value at all? $1/3

looks like a pretty safe flop for him to lead out with. no reason to believe any pair might be good or win it right there. since you got this far you might consider going for it based on some past experience if you have some.

i can see ak, aq and most any pair being in his hand. as you said he is a good player if that is correct.
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Old 04-21-2019, 07:55 PM   #11
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Re: AJs versus TAG 3-bet from SB. Does flopping TP have any value at all? $1/3

Quote:
Originally Posted by budfox89 View Post
Hero has $270. Running pretty bad. Had to top off a couple times and just got bluffed off a hand 20 mins ago. On tilt a bit and maybe the table knows.

V1 is mid-30s, Asian guy. Seems like a good, patient TAG player. Watching TV on his tablet and only seems to get involved with the best hand. He has $600 and would have even more if he wasn't sucked out earlier.

V2 has $200 and seems loose. Getting involved in a lot of hands, doesn't seem like the best player. OTTH

V2 UTG straddles to $6. Folded to Hero in MP2 with AhJh. I raised up to $20. V1 3-bets it up to $50 from the SB. Given his style and position, his range should be really tight. 99+, AQo, ATs. Might not even be that wide for the suited aces.

V1 calls and I called. With $120 in the pot, I thought it was ok to call another $30 with the suited A but maybe I should have folded here given the villain's range?

Flop Jc 7s 2d ($150). V1 bets $100 and V2 folds. I have $220 left. Your move?

Grunch:
I'd raise slightly more pre (25), and fold to 3b from the v you described.

I know we flopped TPTK, but v1 is showing a lot of strength by betting (relatively and absolutely) big into 2 players. I don't see him cbetting this much with AK/AQ/TT, I think this line based on my experience is more JJ+ heavy
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Old 04-22-2019, 09:12 AM   #12
Aulm
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Re: AJs versus TAG 3-bet from SB. Does flopping TP have any value at all? $1/3

Raise bigger preflop, to like $25

The 2.5x raise from the tight player is very suspicious. Given stack sizes I think that folding Pre-flop is the correct play against this player. I think his range is very tight, and there are not enough implied odds, even with the loose player.

Would facing a c-bet from this player, on an A high flop be any easier for you? Probably not.
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Old 04-22-2019, 02:25 PM   #13
Ray Zee
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Re: AJs versus TAG 3-bet from SB. Does flopping TP have any value at all? $1/3

big difference than a c- bet with an ace out there.
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Old 04-22-2019, 03:24 PM   #14
gobbledygeek
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Re: AJs versus TAG 3-bet from SB. Does flopping TP have any value at all? $1/3

I think AJs plays far better in a limped high SPR pot than a low SPR raised one, especially if we possibly might end up OOP (we're only in MP here), especially if we might get reraised (where we'll have to dump it) so I limp preflop. But I pretty much don't raise anything unless I'm in LP, so whatever.

Trivial fold for me from a tight 3bet range. We're just not going to make up what we need from the idiot coldcaller having to put in a huge 25% of our stack preflop.

As played, I fold against most tight 3betters cbet (and yes, sigh, we'll be folding to whiffed AK some of the time, but not all of the time given this has gone 3way), but this is part of the reason we fold preflop in the first place.

AJs is a fairly marginal hand. We're playing it like it's a monster, imo.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 04-22-2019, 03:41 PM   #15
basederic
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Re: AJs versus TAG 3-bet from SB. Does flopping TP have any value at all? $1/3

I don't understand why we are not continuing flopping TPTK on one of the driest boards ever. I do agree, however, AJo or AJs should be a fold given a 3bet from the SB, although I will admit I have trouble folding suited aces w/ paint facing a reraise from EP. OTTH:
Are we assuming SB is a megafish/nit and always bets 2/3 for value regardless of board texture? Does he never have AK, AQ, or A10(squeeze) in this scenario?
Are we folding TPTK if the flop was Js 7s 2d? (2-tone)?
What if it was Js 7s 2s?

Thank you in advance.
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